Ok, so I got my new water pump from quadratec yesterday, bolted it up today, got all the belts back on, fan, and reinstalled the radiator. Knocked a hole in the tank oif the radiator while putting in back in, and finally ended up draining it down and patching the hole with some quicksteel. Refilled the radiator, and tried to start the jeep. Would barely turn over, so I assumed it was because it hasn't been run in awhile. Jumped it off the wife's car, and it still would barely turn over. Finally crancked and there is this nice squalling sound coming from the water pump, and it's obvously making it hard for the engine to turn over. Anybody got any idea what the deal is? Did I get a bad pump or what? I don't see any way it could not be lined up right as the 4 bolts going into the block were a pain in the A$$ to get lined up, so there's no way to adjust where the pump sits. I don't get it, and right now I'm gonna drink some beer and listen to the Razorback game and try to get in a better mood. Guess regardless of the problem I'm gonna have to take the damn thing apart again tomorrow. Any help here would be appreciated
Water pump. What the Heck?
- Thread starter wm69
- Start date
Nah, the belts are real tight. I think I'm gonna pull all the belts off and see if it is the pump making the noise, or the belts, or the ps pump or the alt or the AC compressor. I'm kinda wondering if the pulley for the belts that goes on the water pump might be dragging on something. Thanks a bunch for the reply!
It doesn't sound like a belt squall (heard lots of those). It sounds like something is binding, and the engine is real hard for the starter to turn, and as soon as the key is turned off, the engine immediately stops turning (instead of spinning down slowly). It's gotta be something binding, and I just hope I find it without tearing the whole thing down again. I've heard of people getting bad water pumps and alternators, and am kinda worried it's a bad pump (it did turn ok before I put it on, but not as easy as the old one).
Inspector-Gadget
New member
This is a tough one...so many possibilities.
Instinct (spelled..."g-u-e-s-s-i-n-g") tells me you have two problems: one with the starting system, another with the cooling system.
Let's see...(Gadget does Gadget patented head scratch)...how about instead of dismantling everything tomorrow, you first try taking off the belt that drives the water pump and then turn the fan-water pump by hand to determine the water pump drag. If the water pump spins with only light drag, then the water pump is not loading the starter.
If you need confirmation and are brave, try cranking-starting the engine for a short time with the belt(s) removed. If the starter still labors, then the problem can't be the water pump or other belt driven devices, since they won't be driven with the belts removed.
As regards the water pump squealing: I wouldn't assume the worst. I have had that happen after draining the cooling system to make repairs. Apparently, an air bubble forms in the water pump on refilling the system. On start-up, the pump is essentially running dry and squeals in protest. In my experience the problem goes away as the engine heats, the t-stat opens and coolant begins to circulate.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the squealing problem is cured tomorrow as the coolant slowly percolates through the system overnight. If not, then you need to burp the system while filling the radiator. The methods to do that have been covered before here on Jeepz.com and they should be easily found with the search function.
If you can't find any past threads/posts on burping the cooling system, post again. We can always take a crack at that problem too.
I hope that helps.
Gadget
PS: An afterthought: be sure that the water pump shaft actually spins when you spin the fan by hand. I have seen totally failed viscous fan clutches (if your Jeep has one) drive people bananas by causing all sorts of weird cooling system problems. Those clutches can also make squealing noises.
Instinct (spelled..."g-u-e-s-s-i-n-g") tells me you have two problems: one with the starting system, another with the cooling system.
Let's see...(Gadget does Gadget patented head scratch)...how about instead of dismantling everything tomorrow, you first try taking off the belt that drives the water pump and then turn the fan-water pump by hand to determine the water pump drag. If the water pump spins with only light drag, then the water pump is not loading the starter.
If you need confirmation and are brave, try cranking-starting the engine for a short time with the belt(s) removed. If the starter still labors, then the problem can't be the water pump or other belt driven devices, since they won't be driven with the belts removed.
As regards the water pump squealing: I wouldn't assume the worst. I have had that happen after draining the cooling system to make repairs. Apparently, an air bubble forms in the water pump on refilling the system. On start-up, the pump is essentially running dry and squeals in protest. In my experience the problem goes away as the engine heats, the t-stat opens and coolant begins to circulate.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the squealing problem is cured tomorrow as the coolant slowly percolates through the system overnight. If not, then you need to burp the system while filling the radiator. The methods to do that have been covered before here on Jeepz.com and they should be easily found with the search function.
If you can't find any past threads/posts on burping the cooling system, post again. We can always take a crack at that problem too.
I hope that helps.
Gadget
PS: An afterthought: be sure that the water pump shaft actually spins when you spin the fan by hand. I have seen totally failed viscous fan clutches (if your Jeep has one) drive people bananas by causing all sorts of weird cooling system problems. Those clutches can also make squealing noises.
Thanks, I am going to get the belts off first thing and see what is causing the drag. I did think about the pump running dry till the thermostat opened up, but didn't like the way the engine seems to have some drag on it. How do you "burp" the system? I've replaced radiators several times, but this is my first water pump, so I'm kinda new to this task. Thanks again.
Inspector-Gadget
New member
wrangler trans 95
There are several ways to burp (purge) the cooling system of air on refill. I will try to layout two methods.
The problem is air pockets forming at various places in the cooling system as the system is filled with coolant.
The objective is to fill the cooling system, allow the air pockets or bubbles to migrate to the highest elevation in the system, allow that air to escape to the atmosphere, be replaced by coolant, then hermetically seal the system.
The following method works for me. Note that I have a T-fitting used for back flushing the cooling system with a garden hose installed near the middle of the upper heater hose and there is enough hose slack to allow that T-fitting to be raised above the level of the radiator upper tank.
Use whatever is handy -- rope, wire, coat hanger, heavy twine, a pile of old Jeep parts catalogues -- to lift the heater hose with the T-fitting above the level of the radiator upper tank and secure the hose at that level.
Fill the radiator with coolant. Be sure some coolant is in the overflow bottle, at least enough to form a seal over the overflow bottle inlet. Leave the radiator cap off and start engine. As the engine warms, the coolant will sporadically bubble up over the edge of the radiator fill cap, fall on the ground, splash on and forever stain your new sneakers. At some point, the t-stat will open and you will likely notice a dramatic drop of the radiator coolant level. Keep adding coolant until the gurgles and gushes stop and the system will not accept more antifreeze.
Replace the radiator cap, run the engine at a fast idle for a while. Turn the engine off and let entire system cool down. While the engine is cooling, you can busy yourself by trying to clean your new sneakers.
When the engine-radiator have cooled, slowly remove the screw-cap on the T-fitting in the heater hose. Hopefully, air trapped in the cooling system will have migrated to the loop formed in the suspended heater hose, the highest point in the system.
Now, add more coolant via the opened heater hose T-fitting. When the coolant reaches the top of the T-fitting and stays there, replace the T-fitting cap. You might have to repeat the filling of the cooling system via the T-fitting through a couple of cycles of heat up and cool down.
By the way, it is guaranteed that you will splash antifreeze on your new t-shirt during the refilling process. Accept that as an immutable fact of Jeep life and move on.
Luckily, with our unsophisticated CJ-7 heater systems, we don't have to worry about things like a heater control valve being open while we purge the system. CJ-7s don't have a valve to control coolant flow through the heater core. Please don't ask me to explain the design logic of having a large metal box filled with scalding hot liquid in the passenger compartment, inches from human feet, year round to those who live in HOT places like Phoenix, AZ. Such knowledge is high Jeep-Zen and therefore cannot be comprehended by me or other mere mortals.
Also, I suppose the obligatory warnings about cleaning up spilled toxic antifreeze should be added here. OK -- so you should clean up the mess, but do not use the sacred "Guest Towels" or Grandma's antique hand crocheted doiles for clean-up. I am always amazed at the reaction a little misstep like that causes. Trust me: it won't be pretty...better you should have problems with the EPA.
I have also purged cooling systems by just filling the thing, charging up a long steep hill a couple of times at about 4000 RPM and refilling as necessary after engine cool down.
The latter method is quicker and saves the cost of all those ruined sneakers, t-shirts and the please-oh, please-forgive-me fancy restaurant dinners necessitated by using the sacred guest towels for clean-up.
:wink:
Gadget
There are several ways to burp (purge) the cooling system of air on refill. I will try to layout two methods.
The problem is air pockets forming at various places in the cooling system as the system is filled with coolant.
The objective is to fill the cooling system, allow the air pockets or bubbles to migrate to the highest elevation in the system, allow that air to escape to the atmosphere, be replaced by coolant, then hermetically seal the system.
The following method works for me. Note that I have a T-fitting used for back flushing the cooling system with a garden hose installed near the middle of the upper heater hose and there is enough hose slack to allow that T-fitting to be raised above the level of the radiator upper tank.
Use whatever is handy -- rope, wire, coat hanger, heavy twine, a pile of old Jeep parts catalogues -- to lift the heater hose with the T-fitting above the level of the radiator upper tank and secure the hose at that level.
Fill the radiator with coolant. Be sure some coolant is in the overflow bottle, at least enough to form a seal over the overflow bottle inlet. Leave the radiator cap off and start engine. As the engine warms, the coolant will sporadically bubble up over the edge of the radiator fill cap, fall on the ground, splash on and forever stain your new sneakers. At some point, the t-stat will open and you will likely notice a dramatic drop of the radiator coolant level. Keep adding coolant until the gurgles and gushes stop and the system will not accept more antifreeze.
Replace the radiator cap, run the engine at a fast idle for a while. Turn the engine off and let entire system cool down. While the engine is cooling, you can busy yourself by trying to clean your new sneakers.
When the engine-radiator have cooled, slowly remove the screw-cap on the T-fitting in the heater hose. Hopefully, air trapped in the cooling system will have migrated to the loop formed in the suspended heater hose, the highest point in the system.
Now, add more coolant via the opened heater hose T-fitting. When the coolant reaches the top of the T-fitting and stays there, replace the T-fitting cap. You might have to repeat the filling of the cooling system via the T-fitting through a couple of cycles of heat up and cool down.
By the way, it is guaranteed that you will splash antifreeze on your new t-shirt during the refilling process. Accept that as an immutable fact of Jeep life and move on.
Luckily, with our unsophisticated CJ-7 heater systems, we don't have to worry about things like a heater control valve being open while we purge the system. CJ-7s don't have a valve to control coolant flow through the heater core. Please don't ask me to explain the design logic of having a large metal box filled with scalding hot liquid in the passenger compartment, inches from human feet, year round to those who live in HOT places like Phoenix, AZ. Such knowledge is high Jeep-Zen and therefore cannot be comprehended by me or other mere mortals.
Also, I suppose the obligatory warnings about cleaning up spilled toxic antifreeze should be added here. OK -- so you should clean up the mess, but do not use the sacred "Guest Towels" or Grandma's antique hand crocheted doiles for clean-up. I am always amazed at the reaction a little misstep like that causes. Trust me: it won't be pretty...better you should have problems with the EPA.
I have also purged cooling systems by just filling the thing, charging up a long steep hill a couple of times at about 4000 RPM and refilling as necessary after engine cool down.
The latter method is quicker and saves the cost of all those ruined sneakers, t-shirts and the please-oh, please-forgive-me fancy restaurant dinners necessitated by using the sacred guest towels for clean-up.
:wink:
Gadget
Inspector-Gadget
New member
Hi Snitty,
Thank you.
I would prefer the term “tongue-in-cheek†or “self-deprecating†to "sarcastic," however.
Trust me! – I have made every possible mistake and executed every possible stupid move during my lifetime of misadventures in amateur auto-mechanics.
I write from experience.
:wink:
Regards,
Gadget
Thank you.
I would prefer the term “tongue-in-cheek†or “self-deprecating†to "sarcastic," however.
Trust me! – I have made every possible mistake and executed every possible stupid move during my lifetime of misadventures in amateur auto-mechanics.
I write from experience.
:wink:
Regards,
Gadget
If the water pump is dry I always just take the upper hose off of the radiater and dump some antifreeze/water mixture right in there so it goes directly into the pump. Hook it back up and fire the engine up. This will "prime it". This also has the spill antifreeze on the new sneekers affect but since I buy cheep sneekers I don't care.
I do this because if the pump does not have any fluid then it will never circulate any of the fluid. Therby not getting the T-stat hot enough to open. Now for the disclosure. I have never done any coolent related things to a jeep. Most of my experiance is from other cars, but this should work the same for all of them.
I do this because if the pump does not have any fluid then it will never circulate any of the fluid. Therby not getting the T-stat hot enough to open. Now for the disclosure. I have never done any coolent related things to a jeep. Most of my experiance is from other cars, but this should work the same for all of them.
Well, I took the belts off and realized what the problem was. The belt pulley that goes on the water pump was rubbing the front of the water pump housing (some jackass, ME, bent it a little trying to pry a tight belt onto it). I put washers between the pulley and the water pump. Problem Solved! Thanks for the answers.
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