Hy fellow JEOPLE here's what I'm gettin into, I ha posted befor about grand waggy 44's for my yj. After some talkin with bounty-hunter and a few others I've gone and bought a high pinion 44 from a 79 f250, now I was gonna try to use a scout rear44 but I had a thought I can get a chevy dually rear end with 4:10's in really good shape and cheap. I saw on a web site that u can buy hubs to put on this axle that will narrow it by 2-1/4"s and make it 6 bolt patter ( so I can use my rims and 35s I already have), then do disc brake conversion. How does this sound to u guys ? Good idea or bad I would like to hear all opinions thnx oh and I plan on cuttin down front HP44 to fit waggy axle shafts and use chevy outers for 6 bolt as well
axle thoughts
- Thread starter Gerks
- Start date
way too much axle for a 35" tire. your diff will hang very low, plus when you strip a dually rear of the dulley hubs, you WMS is a lot narrower then a regular full width.
why are you focusing on a 6 lug axle? after the cost to convert the D44 from 8 to 6 lug and the cost to switch what ever rear axle you run, you could have bought 4 new rims and had money to spare.
Look for a full width rear axle, non dually. with 35" tires, I would say a D60 would be best, run them 8 lugs, just buy new rims. I just bought 5 H2 rims for $300, they are 17x8 8x6.5 lug pattern.
why are you focusing on a 6 lug axle? after the cost to convert the D44 from 8 to 6 lug and the cost to switch what ever rear axle you run, you could have bought 4 new rims and had money to spare.
Look for a full width rear axle, non dually. with 35" tires, I would say a D60 would be best, run them 8 lugs, just buy new rims. I just bought 5 H2 rims for $300, they are 17x8 8x6.5 lug pattern.
Bounty__Hunter
Super Moderator
I wouldn't run a 1 ton rear axle for 35" tires. Consider an Isuzu Rodeo or Honda Passport rear d44 as they're already 6 lug and have either 4.10 or 4.30 gears, WITH disc brakes.
The reason I am trying to stay with the 6 bolt pattern is i already have a couple sets of 15" rims with tires on them that r in good shape, the only reason I was gonna run the dually rear is so I don't have to narrow it down cause WMS is 63" and if I go with the hub converstion it takes it down to 60-3/4 and figured with the higher HP and a locker it would just b really good insurance that I wouldn't brake a shaft. Of all things to over build on I figured axles would b it lol lol I've done some priceing and figured with out locker I would have $800 in rear with hub con. and disc brakes, and from priceing rims and tires cheap rims r $80 a piece and tires r up around $350 a piece minimum. I'm trying to keep it as close to stock width as posible
couple points of confusion for me.. you front axle is a F250 D44 correct.
that is an 8 lug axle. the cost involved to convert that to 6 lug alone is what it would cost to get a new set of rims. you can spend about $250 for brand new craiger soft 8'. to conver the F250 to 6 lug, you need to source 75-77 chevy D44 hubs, rotors, calipers, and caliper mounts. rotors and calipers I would purchase new, the hub and caliper mount used, will probably run about the cost of 4 new rims. unless you are narrowing the front axle, the ford D44 is I believe 69.5" WMS-WMS so a waggy, scout, or rodeo rear is going to be really narrow. I still suggest looking for a D60 from a 3/4 ton truck. you can grind the bottom of the diff on a D60 to give you D44 clearence, the wms-wms will be about 67" and will be 8 lug. the only 6 lug axle that will be about what your front WMS-WMS is a chevy 10 and 12 bolt axle and to be quite honest, they are not great axles for offroading. you could try to find a 9.5" Semi float 14 bolt which is 6 lug, but they are a little hard to find, only came in chevy/gmc 1500HD trucks and can be pricey because 88-98 chevy 1500 guys look for these as a upgrade.
If I were you, I would look for a 30 spline D60 rear, weld the gears and put disk brakes on it, your total investment should be about $300 when all said and done. if you don't want to weld the gears, add a lunch box locker for another couple hundred bucks, but you will be way under the $800 your proposing for the dually axle.
that is an 8 lug axle. the cost involved to convert that to 6 lug alone is what it would cost to get a new set of rims. you can spend about $250 for brand new craiger soft 8'. to conver the F250 to 6 lug, you need to source 75-77 chevy D44 hubs, rotors, calipers, and caliper mounts. rotors and calipers I would purchase new, the hub and caliper mount used, will probably run about the cost of 4 new rims. unless you are narrowing the front axle, the ford D44 is I believe 69.5" WMS-WMS so a waggy, scout, or rodeo rear is going to be really narrow. I still suggest looking for a D60 from a 3/4 ton truck. you can grind the bottom of the diff on a D60 to give you D44 clearence, the wms-wms will be about 67" and will be 8 lug. the only 6 lug axle that will be about what your front WMS-WMS is a chevy 10 and 12 bolt axle and to be quite honest, they are not great axles for offroading. you could try to find a 9.5" Semi float 14 bolt which is 6 lug, but they are a little hard to find, only came in chevy/gmc 1500HD trucks and can be pricey because 88-98 chevy 1500 guys look for these as a upgrade.
If I were you, I would look for a 30 spline D60 rear, weld the gears and put disk brakes on it, your total investment should be about $300 when all said and done. if you don't want to weld the gears, add a lunch box locker for another couple hundred bucks, but you will be way under the $800 your proposing for the dually axle.
Bounty__Hunter
Super Moderator
My suggestion for the 'Zu rear d44 was only on the assumption the front hp44 would be narrowed to run Waggy axleshafts. A donor Waggy axle would give all the parts needed for narrowing and 6lug outers.
I too have 3 or 4 sets of 6-lug wheels, so my MJ will soon be 6-lug to match the YJ.
I too have 3 or 4 sets of 6-lug wheels, so my MJ will soon be 6-lug to match the YJ.
I know.. I was just clearifyling for the OP.
I also forgot to mention to convert the ford D44 to 6 lug, you will also need 75-77 chevy knuckles and spindles. the hub bearing and races are slightly different so you will need the correct spindle, ford is a 5 stud knuckle/spindle, chevy and waggy is 6 stud knuckle/spindle. so your conversion cost will be higher.
I will be honest, with out significant mods, the F250 D44 is not the best starting point. it is a dimentionally large axle but is no stronger than a 1/2 ton axle. you might be able to sell this axle for a profit to someone with a IFS chevy looking to convert to solid axle and find a 77 ford Bronco D44 or a waggy. honestly I would look for the waggy due to availablity and ease os instilation. I believe I mentioned this before, I would not focus my build around an axle being HP versus LP, you are talking marginal strength increase and about 1.5" of increase clearence at yoke. and even this is not the weak point of the axle. I will have to grab some pics of my Yoke, it is beat to **** and completely rounded over, but it doesn't break.
Good luck with your build.
I also forgot to mention to convert the ford D44 to 6 lug, you will also need 75-77 chevy knuckles and spindles. the hub bearing and races are slightly different so you will need the correct spindle, ford is a 5 stud knuckle/spindle, chevy and waggy is 6 stud knuckle/spindle. so your conversion cost will be higher.
I will be honest, with out significant mods, the F250 D44 is not the best starting point. it is a dimentionally large axle but is no stronger than a 1/2 ton axle. you might be able to sell this axle for a profit to someone with a IFS chevy looking to convert to solid axle and find a 77 ford Bronco D44 or a waggy. honestly I would look for the waggy due to availablity and ease os instilation. I believe I mentioned this before, I would not focus my build around an axle being HP versus LP, you are talking marginal strength increase and about 1.5" of increase clearence at yoke. and even this is not the weak point of the axle. I will have to grab some pics of my Yoke, it is beat to **** and completely rounded over, but it doesn't break.
Good luck with your build.
Bounty__Hunter
Super Moderator
Doesn't the hp44 from the f250 have thicker axletubes than any 1/2t d44?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a 77 bronco a fullsize just like a 1/2 ton? Cause they have hp44 with thinner tubes and torsion bar triangles on the tubes, my axle has spring perchs and if I remember right 1/2" tubes and yes I do plan on shortening it to fit the waggy shafts. That was one of the reasons for running the dually rear is cause I don't need to narrow it to match front axle and stay close to factory width
no 66-77 broncos have a really narrower trac. ~59-60" wms I believe, I know it is narrower than a wide trac waggy by about 2"
As for the tubes being larger, not that I am aware of, all D44 open knuckle axles run a 2 3/4" .50 wall tube, I know with the closed knuckle versions some axles had 1/4, generally found in F100's, but I could be wrong, I have not searched for it.
But.. the cast differential section is larger, but this is to accomodate the larger leaf sring found in the front od F250 versus a waggy front. (3" versus 2.5").
The issue with running the dually axle is that your diff will hang down very very low, with 35" tires, your diff will probably sit lower than a stock jeep with stock tires, kinda negating the point of a lift and larger tires. the 14 bolt/D70 rear axle diffs are huge.
As for the tubes being larger, not that I am aware of, all D44 open knuckle axles run a 2 3/4" .50 wall tube, I know with the closed knuckle versions some axles had 1/4, generally found in F100's, but I could be wrong, I have not searched for it.
But.. the cast differential section is larger, but this is to accomodate the larger leaf sring found in the front od F250 versus a waggy front. (3" versus 2.5").
The issue with running the dually axle is that your diff will hang down very very low, with 35" tires, your diff will probably sit lower than a stock jeep with stock tires, kinda negating the point of a lift and larger tires. the 14 bolt/D70 rear axle diffs are huge.
another thought, you can run a full wideth axle with a H1 rim and your trac wideth will be similar to a stock jeep axle with a 3.5" BS rims. Might be something to consider, H1 rims are double bead locks and can be found dirt cheap. a guy on pirate, 406YJ sells H1 rims with 37" good years for about $80-100 per tire/rim.
Bounty__Hunter
Super Moderator
I believe the 3/4t Ford d44's, 78-79, are .5" wall, while most others, especially light d44's like the waggy, are .375" or there abouts.
yes the older ford stuff is that 60" range. The "newer" late 70's 44's are 66" wms to wms. As for the f100 vs f 150 44's i have one of each, i'll check the tube o.d. And i.d..
I got some free dodge 17's rims with 5 on 5 1/2" bolt pattern, the rim front is almost flat so it will pull my rims back in to about what i'm running now, the hubs will stick out, shouldn't be too bad ??? But that's my way of keeping in narrow with out alot of cash. Imp the 44's should work for him, with some after market shafts, and maybe a axle truss, that should work ok. I mean how many people run 35's on dana 30's and 35's ....... I still have a 30 under my jeep with 37's, i have 12" of clearance at the bottom of the diff.. At 10 psi... When it dies, i have a bigger rears to put in it
( sorry if it came out in caps, i wasn't yelling )
waggy axles have been known to be thin, a axle truss may help with this. As for shaving rears...yes you can, don't take too much..
That's what I've seen on a couple forums, guys take almost 2"s off bottom then have ring gear and carrier machined down to fit I'm not planning on machineing ring gear but would like to take off atleast an inch I can do all welding and cutting myself so not worried bout that part and for the front like I said I plan on cuttin down HP44 down to fit waggy axles shafts and chevy knuckles and spindles for high steer so that way I don't have to worry bout hubs stickin out to fat and catching a tree or rock on the trails
Yes you can shave a 14 bolt, to correct you, you only machine the ring gear down, you do not machine the carrier. In fact Balistic now has a 14 bolt shave kit. when you do the drastic shave though, you are removing a bit of the structural integrity of the cast diff housing as well as the gear.. remember, the gear is case hardened, once you machine the nose down flat, you have removed the structural integrity of that case hardening. this becomes even more of an issue if your running 5.13-5.38 14 bolt gears with a motor putting out 200 hp or more due to the fact that the gearset is already very thin.
also, when you remove the bottom portion of the dif, even if your welding in 1/4" plate, the integrity of the case has been comprimised and in teh end, you still only have the clearence of a D60 give or take .5"
I have run shaved 14 bolts and run them hard, even with leafs, you NEED to truss the axle tubes together and incorporate the center chunk.
as for the building of the front axle, search my build thread, there should be some info in there about hi-steer and such. I found out year back the hard way, it's not easy as bolting stuff up.
also, when you remove the bottom portion of the dif, even if your welding in 1/4" plate, the integrity of the case has been comprimised and in teh end, you still only have the clearence of a D60 give or take .5"
I have run shaved 14 bolts and run them hard, even with leafs, you NEED to truss the axle tubes together and incorporate the center chunk.
as for the building of the front axle, search my build thread, there should be some info in there about hi-steer and such. I found out year back the hard way, it's not easy as bolting stuff up.
