Headers still glow!! See prev. intake woes!

C

cjshag

New member
1049834

Still can't get my CJ to cooperate. My 304 w/Edelbrock Performer intake and carb. is still turning the headers orange after 5 to 6 minutes of running. FINALLY got through to Edelbrock tech line! They suggested metering rods part #1449. No luck! Tried timing anywhere between 6 and 10 degrees BTDC. Checked for intake leak with ether and propane. Plugged PCV hole and stuck hand over oil filler. Did not feel any suction. (Mechanic suggested this test) I don't want to go back to stock. Don't know what to do. Performance center said disconnect the dual/cats to see if the headers glow when no exhaust is on. He suspects clooged cats. Exhaust seems to flow to me. If cats were clogged wouldn't it turn orange at the cats first? Anyone?
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1049841

There is still a chance that the cats are plugged. When there is resistance in the exhaust system, it will show around the headers for a couple reasons.

1-The exhaust is hottest here

2-With the bends in the pipes, it has more resistance to flow thru them



I would try and disconnect the cat and see what difference it makes. It your state doesn't have emissions, I would just either hollow it out or eliminate it completely. Either way, it shouldn't be too hard.



-If you can't get it disconnected, you can always take your trusty sawzall and cut the pipe before the cat to see if that helps it. Then just go and buy a $3 female-female adaptor to whatever size pipe you have and then either weld it or buy some clamps.



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1049884

I will bet 17 cents that it is the cats that are causeing all this pain! As previously mentioned by several and myself. Give it a shot nothing else has helped and if it don't you just got yourself .17 cents. So what do you have to loose! Tug
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1050086

Update....Progress made!! I want to thank everyone for the commenys and suggestions. I finally made some headway. Disconnected the exhaust in back of the in-frame headers. Started and run the Jeep in the driveway. NO ORANGE HEADERS!! Today I removed the dual exhaust system. It was not as easy as cutting the converters out to check. It's a tight squeeze to get converters and Flowmasters under the CJ-7. The muffler shop welded the cats directly to the muffler. After removing I cut the pipe right in front of the converter. Using a flashlight the converter appears to be O.K. I can see the honeycomb screen in the front. No appearance of meltdown! What is disapointing and frustrating is the way the muffler shop welded the pipes into the collector/reducers. Instead of butting the two together and welding, they jammed the pipe thru the reducers creating a restriction. This is far from ideal flow! I am wondering if this is the problem since I have experienced the hot headers since the first days of running the engine. I'm still thinking of "modifying the converters". I now have to find someone to work with me on rebuilding the exhaust. Muffler shops say they have to put new converters on by law(%&*^*@#). At least I've finally found the problem!
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1050092

Just cut the pipe and get the cat out of there then buy a piece of female on both ends pipe and clamp or weld that bad boy in! ez and you will have new found power and milage! If you ever have to get inspected take the pipe out and set a cat in for the inspection. We have a inspection cat floating around here on the board? heheeh Tug[addsig]
 
1050441

Back again....I can't believe it but the headers are turning orange again! Last time it seemed fine with the exhaust disconnected. Tonight it turned orange again! By the way I took the exhaust to the muffler shop on the way home. Cut out the cats to check condition. They were fine. I could see thruogh them. Am I back to an intake leak? I called Competition cams tech line tonight. Tech guy suggested a larger jet in carb. I already upsized the metering rods. It is a model#1400 Performer EGR carb. Has anyone ever had a similiar problem? Anyone have a manifold that just would not seal? The cam is a Competition #CL10-201-4. I don't want my next post to read "FOR SALE...."
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1050443

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>I don't want my next post to read "FOR SALE...."</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>



me neither... don't give up on her! how bout some ice cubes? mommy always put them on my booboos and they numbed right up!
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1050449

how is your jeep running besides the headers turning orange?? The reason I ask I had the same problem come to find out it was a leaning out, you may want to check into that a engine running extremly lean isnt going to last long without something worse happening[addsig]
 
1050463

The Jeep starts and idles smooth. No missing or surging. Temp. gauge is normal. This is a problem I've had since the rebuild (See original posts). Thought it was solved a couple of times. Acting up again after she's been undergoing body resto. I'm out of answers. Local Jeep mechanic says to put stock combo. back on top and see what happens. I hate to do this but I'm digging out the parts.[addsig]
 
1050701

I have the exact same set-up in my Jeep, except, for an AMC 360. I almost positive you are running lean. Rejet a COUPLE of sizes more rich. Also, When you installed the intake are you sure all gaskets lined up and went in right?
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1050735

I had a problem like this once and the bend in the headers were to restrictive I had to go back to stock manifold.[addsig]
 
1050802

I sure wish you´d get a handle on this, I´m getting frustrated just listening to you. I´d be cussing up a storm about now.

My first thought was lean also, but it could be alot of things. I once installed a muffler backwords on a tuned motor, ran pretty bad. Some mufflers are bi-directional some arn´t. But really I can´t see an exhaust restriction, causing the headers to overheat, but heck I´m sure I havn´t seen it all yet. Low intake vacumn, usually shows up a restriction.

I´ve gotten some bad fit´s on intakes, usually with shaved heads. I´ve had to bolt the intake (without the gasket) to the heads before tightening, then retighten the intake with the gaskets in place (sometimes a few thousands of an inch makes a difference), holding my breath the whole time, that something wouldn´t crack. Laying the intake on the heads without a gasket, and a careful look with a flashlight and a thin feeler gauge might turn up something. Might try a thin coat of grease on the sealing surface (heads), just to check how it sits. You can see how it´s contacting by the grease (on the intake) and a little colored talkum or baby powder really shows up good.

Back in the old days when bigger was better. I´ve over carbed a few motors. Especialy types with intakes with straight runners. The fuel has a tendancy to puddle up some, and low fuel will make you run lean, just like to much air. We would have to turn the idle up above a thousand to get em to run right.

How are your headers sealing to the heads, it´s possible for a leak at 90 degs. to the exhaust flow, to suck air, and cause a fairly energetic burn in the exhaust.



Just a few ideas, I´m really interested how this turns out. Luck, Chuck.

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1050991

Some questions on my ongoing problem. My Vacuem advance tube is hooked up straight to the base of the carb from the distributer. I am not running ported vacuem. The CTO switch is in the intake,but the outlets are plugged. This is how it was with old carb. since my air tubes/etc. are removed. Can this be a problem?



My cam was degreed in according to the engine shop receipts. However that cam had to be replaced immediately after start up. The engine was making valve train noise. Turns out the cam had flat spots. I had a mechanic friend install the second cam. I don't know if he degreed it. I don't remember seeing a degree wheel. What problems could this cause. I don't quite understand "degreeing".



Too cold to mess with it today. Just trying to come up with solutions![addsig]
 

1051186

I'd like to try and help. But first I have several questions. What size engine, what upgrades have you made, i noticed you installed a cam, what size. It seems that everyone was on the right track, but I feel as though something is being over looked. Sometimes when you have a problem and you do a dozen different things, some of them at the same time you can screw up something in the process. I say from experience. Usually on my vehicles!!! Also what have you done so far? What is the timing set at now? I know these are alot of questions but I'm slow sometimes and sometimes I need to see all the answers on one page.[addsig]
 
1051229

I'll sum up where I stand.(In a bucket of tears!)

The engine is my original 304 that was rebuilt, bored over .030, balanced, etc. by a local engine shop.

*Added Performer EGR manifold,PerformerEGR carb. model #1400(600cfm)

* Added Competition cam: Model CL10-201-4, Cam grind #260H

* New exhaust w/ in-frame HTC coated headers, Dual cats/dual flowmasters.

* EGR is for looks. Steel plate gasket underneath.

PROBLEM: Exhaust headers turn orange after 5-6 minutes of running! I tried several intake gaskets and adjusting the carb. The original cam had to be replaced before I found this problem. I had a lot of valve train noise after start up. Turns out cam had flat spots. A mechanic friend helped me install it. I'm not sure if it was degreed or if this makes a difference?



Jeep finally seemed to run right. I put about 1500 miles on it in the last 1.5 years before taking it apart for body resto. Now it is acting up again!

* I've checked for intake leaks!

* I've changed carb. metering rods.

* I've cut off exhaust to check for clogs! Cats are O.K.

* I started Jeep one night with the open headers and the pipes did not turn orange. The next night they did. It has not been the same pipes all along!



This is the short version. I'm sorry if ya'll are sick of hearing about this![addsig]
 
1051230

so you picked up this 'performance' cam first, and the grind was bad. most performance cams are "regrinds", meaning they take an OEM cam and add metal to it. possibly your present cam (possibly) has worn itself down (because it is a regrind)and is doing the same thing as the first one... and not opening up the exhaust valves enough to let the gas out, thus overheating your header.[addsig]
 

1051251

Which type of EGR do you have? Flat type that covers two holes or the bathtube plug type that plugs one hole inside of the other? In early Dodge applications, the one hole inside of the other type, when removing the EGR, the inside hole had to be plugged with a self tapping screw and a cover installed over the larger hole.

If you´re first cam was degreed (the intake opens when it´s supposed to open, exhaust closses when it´s supposed to close etc.), the second might need to be degreed also. You didn´t say if you have a slotted timing gear or one with offset bushings, to adjust the cam. It´s possible to get the bushing type, timing gear bushing in there backwards, if it´s the slotted type you´d almost have to degree the second cam also. You didn´t say if the timing gear and chain was replaced.

If some junk fell into the intake (I once pulled a screw out of a cylinder with a magnet, that fell down the carb. don´t ask me how it got by the valve) and is keeping the exhaust valves open a touch. It should show up as lower compression. And could sure enough heat up your headers. This can usually be felt as a thump (like a little explosion) at the exhaust outlet.

We´re not sick of hearing about this, we are all waiting to cheer, when you finally get it right. And find out what happened, so we don´t make the same mistake some day.
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