I demand that you let me break the law!!
- Thread starter Junkpile
- Start date
OutOfStep
New member
90Xjay said:Then we should only put agents of Irish and Norweign descent on that border8)
That may be true, but it must be state department policy that allows them to do that.
Trust me, Scandanavian flesh doesn't like patrol's in the summer here. Not sure who lets them do it, or if its even got any type of official nod.
mingez
New member
I'm all for all of the proposed solutions, except untrained voluntary militia. Last thing we need are a bunch of amatuers with guns patrolling the border.
I would however, propose to build a big wall around Texas.urple: urple: urple:
Just kiddin' 90!...kinda... Okay, perhaps a wall around Dallas....
.... could we just deport Cowboy fans?
I would however, propose to build a big wall around Texas.
urple: urple: urple: Just kiddin' 90!...kinda... Okay, perhaps a wall around Dallas....
.... could we just deport Cowboy fans?
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eastcoast_biased
New member
want to even the playing field.............fairtax.org
finally theyd pay taxes like the rest of us
finally theyd pay taxes like the rest of us
90Xjay
New member
Now the Mexican Goverment is threating lawsuits if we put the guard on the border and try and detain people.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/16/mexico.immigration.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/16/mexico.immigration.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest
redrooster
New member
Punishing large companies for hiring the illegals wouldn't do much good. I believe that most of the illegals are hired by small companies who pay them under the table. How would you police every farm, roofing or construction company in the US? I suppose it would be left for the individual states to do.
Let's get some actual numbers here. Going from what I heard on the news last night, the math doesn't add up. I thought they said that there were some 12 million illegals here (sounds low). Then later I heard them say that there were $13 billion being sent home to Mexico annually. The math doesn't add up on that one.
I wonder what the total burden on the US taxpayer is for the illegals? It's not bad enough that we have to support all the welfare recipients who don't want or don't care to get a job and get off the programs, now we are supporting the illegals to. Next on the list should be welfare reform. We have too many people sitting on their cans waiting for their monthly check. Once we get all the illegals out, they won't have the excuse of not being able to find employment.
Let's get some actual numbers here. Going from what I heard on the news last night, the math doesn't add up. I thought they said that there were some 12 million illegals here (sounds low). Then later I heard them say that there were $13 billion being sent home to Mexico annually. The math doesn't add up on that one.
I wonder what the total burden on the US taxpayer is for the illegals? It's not bad enough that we have to support all the welfare recipients who don't want or don't care to get a job and get off the programs, now we are supporting the illegals to. Next on the list should be welfare reform. We have too many people sitting on their cans waiting for their monthly check. Once we get all the illegals out, they won't have the excuse of not being able to find employment.
90Xjay
New member
redrooster said:
Ahh... states rights... I long for the good old days... before the War of Northern Agression.. when states had some rights..
Seems to me that when the Feds don't want to deal with something they yell, "state level issue" but at their convienience they move in and say "step aside, this is a FEDERAL Matter.":-| :-|
redrooster
New member
Oh so true reference Hurrican Katrina.
mingez
New member
That's easy for you guys to say. You're caucasian AND you're in PA.TwistedCopper said:
I lived in one of the war zones, El Paso to Las Cruces.
Trying being brown-colored, in a desert 4 wheeling in your XJ, and having JED with his rifle shootin' at random "colored" folks. No thanks!
"Voluntary" is not the part I have a problem with. It's the unntrained and unscreened volunteer I have a problem with. Some David Duke or Farrakhan worshiping slack-jawed yokel with a rifle is not a great idea.
Hahahaha right.
Hey, there are a lot of things that were "necessary" back then that aren't anymore: Blood Letting, horse-drawn wagons, slavery, oil lamps, quills, and carrier pidgeon. But now we have Penecillin, Jeeps, Free Men, Flashlights, Bics and the internet.
Things change.
If you catch a terrible disease are you also going to reach for the bottle of anti-biotics or are you going to cut your wrists and bleed into a apothecary jar?
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90Xjay
New member
mingez said:That's easy for you guys to say. You're caucasian AND you're in PA.
I lived in one of the war zones, El Paso to Las Cruces.
Trying being brown-colored, in a desert 4 wheeling in your XJ, and having JED with his rifle shootin' at random "colored" folks. No thanks!
"Voluntary" is not the part I have a problem with. It's the unntrained and unscreened volunteer I have a problem with. Some David Duke or Farrakhan worshiping slack-jawed yokel with a rifle is not.
Hahahaha right.
Hey, there are a lot of things that were "necessary" back then that aren't anymore: Blood Letting, horse-drawn wagons, slavery, oil lamps, quills, and carrier pidgeon. But now we have Penecillin, Jeeps, Free Men, Flashlights, Bics and the internet.
Things change.
If you catch a terrible disease are you also going to reach for the bottle of anti-biotics or are you going to cut your wrists and bleed into a apothecary jar?
Your response to what I said, while not lacking enthusiasm, did lack something else....a point.
Having patriots willing and able to stand and fight then or now is just as viable today or back then... without the Prez calling them "vigilantes"
redrooster
New member
I think volunteers being there is fine, but they should not go untrained or unchecked. That's a mishap waiting to happen. They should go through some sort of training program and be deputized.
mingez
New member
First off, I want to make it clear that I was being light and playful. And unless I'm misreading your post, it sounds as if you are being the same. It seems we just "Know" each other's debating styles now! That's awesome!90Xjay said:Your response to what I said, while not lacking enthusiasm, did lack something else....a point.
Having patriots willing and able to stand and fight then or now is just as viable today or back then... without the Prez calling them "vigilantes"
That being said, you had it dead wrong. I was typing VERY UN-enthusiastically, but I actually did have a point.
urple: The point: Things that were necessary back then might not be necessary today. We needed an untrained voluntary militia to help the cause. Today, we don't (YET) have a need for that. Thankfully.
I fully disagree with the notion that it's viable today. It's not viable (yet). We are not revolting from a power that has superior funding or firepower. Perhaps, if we were being over run by armed mexicans in the south during a hostile take-over attempt, then by all means, fire away. Just make sure you're hitting Mexicans and not Americans of Mexican Descent.
Don't forget, I fully agree with keeping illegals out of our country. But letting a bunch of amatuers run around with guns in the desert is a terrible idea. ESPECIALLY unscreened. And I'm not trying to play a "Race Card" here, but truth be told, having untrained guys running around the desert with guns is a scary notion to me. I just can't trust that they aren't criminals, racists, or fit to handle weaponry. What keeps a volunteer from getting hammered before patrol? What keeps him from accidentally shooting his fellow patrolmen.
Why stop there? Why not have untrained, unscreened, voluntary, amatuer militia patroling the streets of downtown Denver with guns hunting down illegals? If the real authorities are doing such a terrible job, couldn't they use the help? It would do more harm then good.
look, all I ask is that they are trained, screened and fit for the job. I don't think that's too much to ask.
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bchcky
New member
i'm not sure where you get that idea from. US border patrol agents are highly trained. they go through a 20 week academy that is one of the most respected among law enforcement agencies throughout the united states. i recently started the process to become a border patrol agent. first thing is a test, you must pass in order to be given an unofficial offer.TwistedCopper said:
next would be the unofficial offer (this is where my process stopped, i declined the unofficial offer to pursue other jobs, but i can always go back and take the test again). it is unofficial pending drug screening, a thorough background investigation, a physical fitness test, and a panel interview with three ranking border patrol agents.
in the 20 week academy, agents are taught spanish, citizenship and immigration laws, and general law enforcement aspects of the job (arrests, firearms, hand to hand combat, emergency response etc). i am not sure where everyone is getting the idea that border patrol agents are all cousins of illegals. i took the test in boston, and i'm not related to anyone in mexico. the test is offered throughout the united states, not on the border.
i'm as patriotic as anyone. i love america. but call it protection, call it vigilantism, call it what you want, but allowing untrained people to act as a militia on the border is not the solution. its like the movie boondock saints. you loved the guys because they were killing bad guys, but that doesn't make it right. there are all kinds of issues with it. like people have said, what if they are drunk? what if this becomes some type of party? lets see how many mexican immigrants i can pick off today. i don't want illegal immigrants in my country anymore than the next guy, but like EVERYTHING else in life, there is a right way to go about things, and a not-so-right way to go about things.
the solution is simply more manpower. there are some things that can be guarded by technology, there are things where 3 foot steel walls, retinal scanners, card readers, punch in codes and every other technological device will protect it, like a medical research center where disease samples and tests are stored. and there are simply some things that must be protected by humans, even with all the technology in the world, there is no substitute for manpower on the border. putting the guard on the border is a step in the right direction. and right now, more intense patrols is the best way short of building the great wall of china in texas to keep our borders safe. for those who are so up on the idea of militia's patrolling the border, take the border patrol agent exam, get through the physical, background investigation, drug screen and all that stuff, and then go to the academy for 20 weeks, if you can hack it after that, and you think all your training in 5 months was unnecessary, then we'll talk.
Sparky-Watts
Banned
In response to you post about being a Mexican/American/Japanese dude roaming the desert in a Jeep, I've got a similar story. Back in 1971, we went to visit my dad's two brothers in Tucson for a week. They both had Jeeps, and took us for a drive in the mountains to see some ghost towns. At some point, we apparently crossed the border, and were swarmed by Immigration and DEA agents carrying M16s. They got all of us out of the Jeeps and had us lying face down while they searched the Jeeps for contraband.....3 adult men and 9 children 11 years old and under!!! And all of us white as a cracker!!!! Things have changed, but then again, they haven't........
Sparky-Watts
Banned
This is from a story in the LA Times that a friend out there just sent me this morning:
From the L.A Times
1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million
people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because
they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green
card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal
aliens.
4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien
Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are
Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in! Los Angeles County are living in
garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most
likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak
Spanish (10.2 million people in L. A. County).
(All 10 from the Los Angeles Times)
From the L.A Times
1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million
people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because
they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green
card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal
aliens.
4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien
Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are
Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in! Los Angeles County are living in
garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most
likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak
Spanish (10.2 million people in L. A. County).
(All 10 from the Los Angeles Times)
90Xjay
New member
mingez said:First off, I want to make it clear that I was being light and playful. And unless I'm misreading your post, it sounds as if you are being the same. It seems we just "Know" each other's debating styles now! That's awesome!
Busted.However, comma your point IMO is still invalid.
The nation always needs people who are willing to defend it, a citizen militia. When the time calls for one, as now, groups like the Minutemen "regulate" the militia and organize it. Those folks who want to join the Minutmen and stand on the border are subjected to a background check and must sign a pledge of non-violent lawful behavior.
I think that you have images of a bunch of red-necks with full auto rifles running around in the back of pickups dragging immigrants by chains and drinking beer. Too much Hollywood:lol:
Many states now let good citizens carry concealed handguns. Some states make you go through alot of training and some states hardly any training just a background check. I remember alot of politicians and gun control nuts like Sara Brady running around claiming that people were going to get trigger happy and go Charles Bronson on everyone. Welll that did not happen. What it goes to proove and what I intend for you to take away from my diatribe, is that the great majority of the time, a citizen who takes measures to legally arm himself is a good person who is proficient with a firearm and knows when and how to use it. Many are enthusiest who frequent gun ranges and keep up on the use and laws of self defense.
A militia does not have to always be organized and trained to the point of the National Guard. I'm saying that the county needs something right now, really bad, and who is going to stand up and say enough is enough?
