Just how black do you need to be to be black?

[TwistedCU]

Not so much that I'm prejudiced (though I am somewhat)

Thanks man you just blew my arguement out of the water with that one :lol:

No seriously, everyone has prejudice of some type. It is human nature to preconceive, presume, and prejudge. Especially to those who either are or appear differently than you do. That said, the time where we once had a country where prejudice was the norm is over. Most every aspect of of our lives are filled with diversity, and those few who still hold any significant prejudice are virtually silenced for fear of being a social outcast or other repercussions such as being fired from a job for such behavior. The times have changed. I never said there is a complete absence of prejudice, but the amount towards black people has dwindled to equal other prejudices that exist. In addition, prejudice against blacks is the most widely criticized kind of prejudice. It is much easier for someone to make a politically incorrect joke about just about anyone than it is for someone to make a "black joke", which will most certainly draw gasps and criticism in almost every circle.

Again, we can continue to discuss the existence of significant discrimination against blacks in our culture, but the outrage I expressed in the beginning of this thread was that of a man who is touted to be this great "uniter" of man, yet beats a war drum of a very culture-dividing topic.

It was not only in very poor taste, it took something away from his character... and that's a shame because the guy was spotless prior to it.

He had a good shot at the Democratic nomination.

Mud stated earlier...

We need to forget about the black/white b.s. and move on..............

Well that is the basis of my point!!! Why on Earth was this couple entertaining the idiot reporters who brought this up? They should have quickly and plainly dismissed the topic as irrelevant and let the reporters know that it was a ridiculous thing to ask. Can we agree on that?

 

[mingez]

The difference TC is that Mud wants to "forget about all of the black/white bs"... but that doesn't mean he wants to pretend that the problem doesn't exist.

He's acknowledging that the issue exists and is still a problem. Whereas it seems like your position wants to believe (or does believe) it's no longer an issue. The issue is there, and that's why people address it.

The Obamas entertained the question the reporters were asking because they believe the issue to be a significant one. What are they supposed to say? Should they have responded: "Blacks aren't looked at differently" or "There is no significant difference between dangers to African Americans and whites"??? C'mon! If they did, they'd be lying.

 

[redrooster]

I'll be the first to admit I'm racist. Heck, I'm watching Daytona right now.

I don't care that Obama is black, white, red or plaid. There is something I just don't like about the guy. Could be that his name is one letter off from being Osama. Hmmmm.

 

[TwistedCU]

The difference TC is that Mud wants to "forget about all of the black/white bs"... but that doesn't mean he wants to pretend that the problem doesn't exist.

He's acknowledging that the issue exists and is still a problem. Whereas it seems like your position wants to believe (or does believe) it's no longer an issue. The issue is there, and that's why people address it.

The Obamas entertained the question the reporters were asking because they believe the issue to be a significant one. What are they supposed to say? Should they have responded: "Blacks aren't looked at differently" or "There is no significant difference between dangers to African Americans and whites"??? C'mon! If they did, they'd be lying.

No one can forget about any alleged problem if it is being trumpeted from presidential candidates. That puts it right smack dab in the middle of "water cooler" talk.

I already said what I think their response should have been and why.

I think we all know the real reason this was discussed and the real reason for their responses... they want to appeal to the black voters. With some whack job making silly claims/statements about Obama not being black they felt they needed to address the issue to assure that Obama is seen as "one of them" to the black Americans.

I've said all I can say on this.

 

[JeepMonkey]

:shock:

I'll agree with you on some of your thoughts; I don't think it's fair to have the American Negro College Fund, the Black Miss America Pageant, and this whole Black History Month thing really ticks me off. Why? Not so much that I'm prejudiced (though I am somewhat), but because it does nothing to help erase that tension between blacks and whites, nothing to alleviate that prejudice, and everything to promote discrimination--both ways.

This is something that I've always felt strongly about. As a kid in school it never seemed like a bad thing. However, as an adult with a much broader view on life it seems quite hypocritical for any particular race, color or creed to so specifically set themselves aside these ways and yet still complain about being discriminated against. Can I (caucasion) start a movement for a White History Month or a Miss White America? I think everyone knows what would happen if that was tried.

 

[90Xjay]

I does seem odd, in our town they have a "black" chamber of commerce and many of the black business owners belong to the black chamber and the regular chamber of commerce at the same time. I don't know if they let non-black owners in, but if they did that would defeat the purpose wouldn't it?

 

[Sparky-Watts]

I does seem odd, in our town they have a "black" chamber of commerce and many of the black business owners belong to the black chamber and the regular chamber of commerce at the same time. I don't know if they let non-black owners in, but if they did that would defeat the purpose wouldn't it?

Yes, Wichita also has a Black Chamber of Commerce, and some members belong to both. As JeepMonkey stated, if we wanted to start a White Chamber of Commerce, have a White Miss America, the White College Fund, the NAAWP, we'd be nailed to the proverbial cross as bigots and racists!! I'll say it again, these "blacks only" institutions do more damage to race relations than burning a cross in someone's front yard.

 

[Laph]

I would hate to see what happened if someone opened a Men's only gym, u know the feminazis would be all over that. White men are the most discriminated against, you lose out for job or any other opportunities if you mark white male on the application. You will loose out to a less qualified, woman or minority to look good to the unions or government showing them they are diversified. I know I always check Hick-spanick. The funny thing is when they hand me papers in Spanish and I'm like Umm I'm American I don't speak or read Spanish. Gota use what cards you had delt to you to make it in life, even if it isn't fair. And another thing that gets my goat, Close the damn border... You and I don't need to make less money at work because my 7th or 8th cousin decided to come across the border ILLEGALLY to send US DOLLARS out of the country, Not pay taxes, and bring Drugs with him to poison our kids and country. We have AMERICANS that will do the jobs but not 60 hours a week for minimum wage at 35 hour pay. I know this because I still have a white guy picking up the trash every week in front of my home, and I know he is not an Illegal from Canada or Europe.

 

[TwistedCU]

Well that's their gig... keep the poor or less educated folks on drugs so they are unemployable and then they can take all the menial jobs. It's all a big conspiracy :lol:

 

[TwistedCU]

I have been tempted on so many occasions to check the "Native American" box, but I haven't ever actually done it.

I was born here, right? That makes me native to this land.

Heck I could have had another 2, maybe even 5 years seniority at work if I had. I watched many job openings pass by even though I know I had among the highest scores on pre-employment tests and I also had more experience in linework than anyone that was hired in the 5 years leading up to my hire date. There was only one other applicant that did and he failed the test.

But... I didn't check the box.

 

[judge09]

Yes, Wichita also has a Black Chamber of Commerce, and some members belong to both. As JeepMonkey stated, if we wanted to start a White Chamber of Commerce, have a White Miss America, the White College Fund, the NAAWP, we'd be nailed to the proverbial cross as bigots and racists!! I'll say it again, these "blacks only" institutions do more damage to race relations than burning a cross in someone's front yard.

I don't see anything wrong with people of the same ethnicity, religion, values, disability, whatever wanting to get together to talk about issues that may be specifically significant to them. I also dont see any problem with you starting up a White College Fund or NAAWP if that group worked in a positive manner. The only problem I have with segragated groups is if it is funded/supplemented by gov't dollars. Since we all pay taxes we should all be able to apply for or recieve such funding. For instance, I have no problem with disability benefits or the VA because anyone could have been in their situation.

 

[judge09]

I would hate to see what happened if someone opened a Men's only gym, u know the feminazis would be all over that. White men are the most discriminated against, you lose out for job or any other opportunities if you mark white male on the application. You will loose out to a less qualified, woman or minority to look good to the unions or government showing them they are diversified. I know I always check Hick-spanick. The funny thing is when they hand me papers in Spanish and I'm like Umm I'm American I don't speak or read Spanish. Gota use what cards you had delt to you to make it in life, even if it isn't fair. And another thing that gets my goat, Close the damn border... You and I don't need to make less money at work because my 7th or 8th cousin decided to come across the border ILLEGALLY to send US DOLLARS out of the country, Not pay taxes, and bring Drugs with him to poison our kids and country. We have AMERICANS that will do the jobs but not 60 hours a week for minimum wage at 35 hour pay. I know this because I still have a white guy picking up the trash every week in front of my home, and I know he is not an Illegal from Canada or Europe.

There are plenty of places inthe US that are men only. There are certain functions (i.e. spas, clubhouses, etc.) where it is not appropriate for women. As there arent any men allowed in certain gyms or spas for women near me.

 

[dropseys]

I would like to see the race block removed from all applications. The school by me, Salisbury University, is actively recruiting african american students and employees. They say they will accept all race and genders, but they are actually offering incentives for colored students to come here and the last year all new hirees have been african american. I think this breeds some of the racism that is still around. Why should race be taken into consideration when applying for a job? Thats not important and does nothing to serve your job purpose, yet young african american males are being given job preference over white males. It should be job skills, knowledge, and experience. S.U. is doing away with SAT's for entrance requirements due to the "lower education standards" that have been dealt to african american kids. We pparently have been jipping them at schools too. The Univ Of Maryland Eastern Shore is a predominantly black school. When I was in college they had seevral white kids apply for minority scholarships and actualy get them. Well the NAACP found out and threw a fit about it. Now the school won't allow that to happen. The past is the past and yeah there still are problems, but come on now, I think its getting taken to extremes and is breeding more hatred towards other races.

 

[mingez]

I agree that reverse racism is a problem as well.
But don't tell me that blacks have it better in this country because they are "getting over" on all of the "advantages" we give them.

It's like Chris Rock said, "not one of you white people would trade places with me for a second, and I'M rich!"

Of course the Obama's want to appeal to black voters. So what? What's wrong with that? Black voters have an able mind, and intelligence to think for themselves. They have the same opportunity to read that article and make a decision as to whether the Obama's were playing the race card or not. It's not like minorities are anymore inclined to blindly follow political rhetoric and propaganda than a Caucasian. Or are they?

Trust me, if Bush was black he'd have played any and all cards to gain an advantage.

Besides, the issue was brought up as a result of some idiot suggesting that Obama wasn't black. The issue was brought to HIM, not the other way around. It's not like he just popped up the subject of his blackness in the middle a speech between the platforms of education and Iraq. It's not like he said, "I have a comprehensive plan to make funds available to all college bound students.....by the way, I'm definitely black.... and let's get out of Iraq in 3 years. It was in response to a question, and they answered it honestly.

 

[dropseys]

I'm not saying all black people are making out like bandits. I have met people in dire need who can't get it on the job, but I have also met some who are getting it and shouldn't. That incluides all races, ages, and religions. The problem I have is people being given favoritism based on race or gender. We had the state police for awhile here hiring only women and african americans. They were fillling in for mandated federal stats. I think the whole race box should be removed from job apps. Gender, well i can see some relevence to the app since we have bi-gender names. To me I have seen affirmative action work in reverse. There are places that are behind the times and all, but i think its being taken to extremes. In my police dept for example, we have a Lieutenant that had to use affirmative action back in the 90's because he was testing in the #1 spot for LT on oral and written tests, but wasn't being promoted over other people. That was a clear sign of a race problem as he was best for the job and was being skipped. But when you have someone being given preference over someone who may be better qualified just basedon race, there is a problem. Like you said, reverse racism.

 

[TwistedCU]

I agree that reverse racism is a problem as well.
But don't tell me that blacks have it better in this country because they are "getting over" on all of the "advantages" we give them.

It's like Chris Rock said, "not one of you white people would trade places with me for a second, and I'M rich!"

Of course the Obama's want to appeal to black voters. So what? What's wrong with that? Black voters have an able mind, and intelligence to think for themselves. They have the same opportunity to read that article and make a decision as to whether the Obama's were playing the race card or not. It's not like minorities are anymore inclined to blindly follow political rhetoric and propaganda than a Caucasian. Or are they?

Trust me, if Bush was black he'd have played any and all cards to gain an advantage.

Besides, the issue was brought up as a result of some idiot suggesting that Obama wasn't black. The issue was brought to HIM, not the other way around. It's not like he just popped up the subject of his blackness in the middle a speech between the platforms of education and Iraq. It's not like he said, "I have a comprehensive plan to make funds available to all college bound students.....by the way, I'm definitely black.... and let's get out of Iraq in 3 years. It was in response to a question, and they answered it honestly.

I never said they get over, but they sure are not at a disadvantage. If anything, straight white males are.

I wouldn't trade places with anyone, especially Chris Rock. Not because he's black, because he's a jackass.

As for the above quoted comments about black voters, it is not Obama's objective I question, it is his tactics. As for this:

Black voters have an able mind, and intelligence to think for themselves. They have the same opportunity to read that article and make a decision as to whether the Obama's were playing the race card or not. It's not like minorities are anymore inclined to blindly follow political rhetoric and propaganda than a Caucasian. Or are they?

What... is that bait? Good grief, Mingez who in their right mind would insinuate or even think they are any more or less able to smell political baloney? Certainly not me... I would hope you'd know that.

My point all along has been that I think that this political hackery would cost him a chance at being elected. I hope, with all my heart, that although understanding that it would be a proud moment for the country to see it's first black president, that anyone and everyone, black, white, or purple, would much rather wait for a good candidate who makes a run at the presidency based on "the content of his character and not the color of his skin" and not merely vote for someone who plays his skin color as some kind of trump card for getting the black vote. Yeah I think we all are smarter than that. I know we are, and that we is all-inclusive.

The guy is just another John Edwards "empty suit" candidate and that fact is becoming more and more evident every time he opens his mouth. if what I heard on the radio today about his admitting doing "enough cocaine to kill a elephant" is true, and I believe it is, well that isn't going to help him at all either.

He's done... exnay.

 

[TwistedCU]

Oh, and how the heck would you know what a black George Bush would do? :lol:

 

[mingez]

I'm not saying all black people are making out like bandits. I have met people in dire need who can't get it on the job, but I have also met some who are getting it and shouldn't. That incluides all races, ages, and religions. The problem I have is people being given favoritism based on race or gender. We had the state police for awhile here hiring only women and african americans. They were fillling in for mandated federal stats. I think the whole race box should be removed from job apps. Gender, well i can see some relevence to the app since we have bi-gender names. To me I have seen affirmative action work in reverse. There are places that are behind the times and all, but i think its being taken to extremes. In my police dept for example, we have a Lieutenant that had to use affirmative action back in the 90's because he was testing in the #1 spot for LT on oral and written tests, but wasn't being promoted over other people. That was a clear sign of a race problem as he was best for the job and was being skipped. But when you have someone being given preference over someone who may be better qualified just basedon race, there is a problem. Like you said, reverse racism.

First off, I agree with most of that.

Hey now! I didn't say I approve of affirmative action. Let's not get crazy here. I'm just suggesting that there are definitely disadvantages more than advantages to being a minority...specifically black. Hence why there is such a huge disparity in income between whites and blacks in this country.

The truth is that HR folks have the same biases and prejudices we do. I KNOW of managers in retail who have given the job to a person who was white versus a Hispanic or a black. How? They told me. On the other side of that, I know of people going out of their way to hire minorities over whites of equal or higher qualifications, just to counter-act that issue.

If 90% of upper management in corporate America were African American, do you truly believe a Caucasian getting a job would have the same chances as a black man? C'mon.

Affirmative action, while in principle is supposed to put minorities in hiring positions, is a nice idea, it doesn't work. We all know this.

I, on the other hand, have had people prejudge me based on my appearance as an Asian. And for the most part, it's been an advantage. (I don't know why, perhaps they think I'm good with numbers and a hard worker...boy were they misled! LOL :lol: ) On paper however, my last name (especially in Denver) hinders me at times. It's an interesting dichotomy.

 

[mingez]

Here's a microcosm of society. Take the NFL for example.

What is the percentage of African American players?

Now, tell me what percentage of Coaches and Management are African American.

Can someone give me a good reason for such disparity? Intelligence? Education? Biases in hiring?

To me, if truly the world was a fair, justice, and even playing field, and there were no disadvantages/advantages from one race to another, the population of the work force would reflect management and upper-management. It doesn't, and in it's own right should be proof that there still are issues to be addressed here.

 

[mingez]

I never said they get over, but they sure are not at a disadvantage. If anything, straight white males are.

I wouldn't trade places with anyone, especially Chris Rock. Not because he's black, because he's a jackass.

Well, but a TC version of Rock wouldn't be. And you know what the point of that was.

What... is that bait? Good grief, Mingez who in their right mind would insinuate or even think they are any more or less able to smell political baloney? Certainly not me... I would hope you'd know that.

I do. But if that's the case, then why question his "Tactics"? Black or white he's still a politician.

My point all along has been that I think that this political hackery would cost him a chance at being elected. I hope, with all my heart, that although understanding that it would be a proud moment for the country to see it's first black president, that anyone and everyone, black, white, or purple, would much rather wait for a good candidate who makes a run at the presidency based on "the content of his character and not the color of his skin"

BUT, and forgive me for hollering,
HE DIDN'T BRING THE ISSUE UP!!!!!!!!!!! IT WAS BROUGHT TO HIM!!!!

Like I said, he was answering questions about his ethnicity. If someone were to wake up tomorrow and claim that you were Hispanic, wouldn't you say "No, I'm not?" And by doing so, does it mean you're trying to gain an advantage by clarifying the truth? Are you now playing the race card? NO. You're stating the obvious. You aren't hispanic.