Trail Ettiquette

[cewtwo]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before. Sometimes it is worth repeating.

I was on a trail run Sunday. During that trail ride, I handed out the following parts - 1 tarp (small), two bushings for a shackle, 1 shackle bolt, and an ARB repair fitting. I also loaned out some tools - I did get them back.

The tarp was for a Jeep that just went over an obstacle but busted the gears in his rear diff. Even though there was a line waiting for the obstacle, he refused to get his rig moved as he HAD to repair it in place. He kept saying 15 minutes for an hour or so until he finally drove it off.

The shackle parts were for a Toyota project truck. Thank the good lord that parts fit. He didn't even have a hammer or sockets. He suspended the front of his rig off the ground using his winch without a tree strap.

The ARB repair kit went to a large truck that couldn't get off of where he was without his front ARB locker (even though someone could easily have snatched him off). He took about a half hour before a friend did snatch him off.

There was a blue bronco that monopolized a narrow obstacle with a tree that was pin striping him. The wait behind this guy was 45 minutes and he had to be snatched off, as well.

Two questions -
1) Why don't people carry spare parts for their rigs? It didn't cost me much to assist them, but it cost me. I told them to "Pay it Forward."
2) Does anyone beleive in the 3 strikes/20 minute rule? Do you need to stay right where you broke down for YOUR comfort? How about the other users on the trail?

Any opinions?

 

[laxpug19]

If i have ever been on a trail i could. but i havent, but it sounds pretty scummy to do that!

 

[currupt4130]

If someone is making a pretty good show on an obstacle, we usually let em have their fun. If someone is just proding at it in first gear and spinning tires we gently suggest they bypass after the 5th try or so. We all understand wanting to make it, and when someone wants to put on a show we let them by all means.

Fixing, well if it can be moved off the trail, we move it. We don't block the trail if theres a choice. Otherwise all efforts are made to secure the vehicle in place and get it done as quickly as possible. I for one am always jumping under other peoples rigs to fix their crap, or at least help. I'd loan out any spare I have if it will help someone, I just ask that they replace it for me if it was fairly expensive or something I really do need to keep a spare of.

For example, was at Paragon and buddy broke a 44 shaft. He wound up needing a whole short side assembly, no problem, just send me another one. Smaller things, or things that I didn't pay full for, I usually either give, sell on the cheap, or ask for beer at the campsite for. Work, I never ask for any compensation other than maybe a beer, but thats at the most. I've torn down transfer cases on the trail for nothing, I enjoy the work.

Most of the guys I wheel with are very generous and helpful. Two years ago at Tellico we came up on a broken down XJ on slickrock. It had to be slightly repaired before it could move, he broke a control arm and almost ripped off his driveshaft when the axle wrapped up. So after two hours of our clubs time working on it, we got him out of the way. Stuff happens, and you have to deal with it, but if it's you thats broke, be courteous and do your best to make sure you can at least move it as quickly as possible so other groups can go through.

 

[90Xjay]

For the reasons you mentioned, that is mainly why I go alone or with one good friend and avoid crowds.

 

[Utah_jeepster]

I feel your pain cewtwo and sympathize with you. For some dumb reason a lot of people think that when you off road its ok to travel with no spare parts, emergency food and water. Why heck we are only 20 miles or so off the hiway...why we can call for a tow truck or something. WRONG! You might get lucky if your cell phone even works!

From simple day trips to extended over nighters we carry a load out that rivals most jeep stores in spare parts. And we freely offer those parts to those stupid enough not bring them. Many of times I have given away parts and never to see payment or the parts again, its the price we pay...
After 10 years of doing this I have sort of stopped offering them out except to those I am off-roading with because I know they will replace my spare short shaft or a gallon of anti-freeze when we hit town or later, but I know they will.

Unfortunately most of my off-road group has adopted this practice as well, with one exception is if they have kids (so for those of you who don't carry parts,food or emergency stuff where I off-road bring your kids because they will save your life).

I know allot of you are going to flame me for this but in one day on poison spyder trail we passed three rigs dead in there tracks, one group so lost they weren't sure they were in Utah any more and none had the simple spare parts or knowledge to get themselves out. 40$ in u-joints and 10$ in anti-freeze plus a little duct tape got the DOA's out and 2 1/2 hours leading the clowns back to the beginning of the trail, thus not allowing us to complete the trail that day was kind of like the last straw for us. Since then we make sure they have the basics of life support, offer to call for emergency retrieval service. We just cant afford to help every broken down idiot along the trail.


So the real question here is...when does it become our job to rescue idiots who think a hammer and crescent wrench is all they need?

 

[Laph]

...when does it become our job to rescue idiots who think a hammer and crescent wrench is all they need?

don't forget duct tape, pliers and wire

 

[currupt4130]

I personally carry just enough to fix my drivetrain to where I can drive out if need be, but I don't get any further than that. If I'm going out on long trail rides, I may carry more, but if my engine takes a dump, it's back to the trailer on a strap, and then camp if it can't be fixed with the tools in my truck.

 

[Utah_jeepster]

don't forget duct tape, pliers and wire

If you carried that at least you could fix, a torn side wall, a leaky radiator hose, a leaky or broken gas line, broken shifter linkage, broken steering linkage, hole in the oil pan, a broken fan belt....the list goes on. and still have time to make a few wire snares to catch lunch while working on your jeep.


I always carry duct tape and some form of bailing wire. Pliers well several are in the tool kit. You all gotta love MacGyverism

 

[cewtwo]

Snares for lunch on the trail? Little much for me. The freeze-dried food is acceptable in a pinch. I always carry 4 days worth for two people with a small stove, minimal cook kit and water. Also, Molly goes along just in case I may need some additional protein based stringy, tough meat.

Molly and I at the "Top of the World!"

Last time I was on Poison Spider, I found a lost wanderer in his Jeep. Was able to direct him back to the trail head. I'm always so tempted to send them to the Gold Bar Rim Trailhead via Golden Spike, but I don't. The funny thing was he was on his way to visit his kids in Monticello!

 

[currupt4130]

Speaking of food on the trail, I need to make some burrito cookers to put on my exhaust manifold...

 

[cewtwo]

In addition to the cell phone, I carry a CB radio, and 2 FRS radios. Even if you don't need them for an emergency situation, you can listen for other groups in the area and listen in on what is happenin!

 

[B192734]

You know, I used to be one of those people that didn't carry anything. I remember times when I even forgot the tool kit, and said to myself, "Eh. I won't need it. Not a bit deal. I'll just walk out". Then one time I lost a radiator hose, and had nothing to fix it. Not cool. I ended up tieing it into place with VINES. That sucked. I had to stop about every 1/4-1/3 of a mile and tie the thing back up. Luckily someone drove past about 3 miles down the road, and had some tools and tape. Then I got home and took the 1/2 hour or so to replace the hose and refill everything. Easy. Needless to say, now I carry as much as I can. Not to say that I'm a great mechanic, or can diagnose the correct thing that's wrong unless it's obvious, but I am now always ready to try at least.

 

[David]

This is a very interesting discussion. I've seen some of it before. Basically, the question I hear in various forms is whether people with little or no mechanical ability should be allowed to off-road. If you think that increasing the popularity of the sport is a good thing, then the answer, I would think, has to be yes. The ability to work on one's own vehicle is, generally speaking, dying in our society. This is somewhat due to the increased complexity of the machinery, but probably more to the facts that (a) vehicles are more reliable, so fixing isn't necessary, and (b) our more service-oriented economy suggests to us that the simplest solution to a mechanical problem is to pay someone to fix it.

I completely agree that rules of etiquette should be followed. This means getting off the trail when you're broken down, if at all possible, and if it's not, fixing what's wrong as quickly as possible. Those who don't have much mechanical skill should try to travel with those who do. However, let's not make the trails a hostile environment for those who are trying to enjoy our sport, but simply don't have the know-how that years of experience can bring.

 

[cewtwo]

I have cooked food on my exhaust manifold before...

I also reheat food by wrapping it in aluminum foil and placing under the front passenger seat above the catalytic converter...

 

[B192734]

However, let's not make the trails a hostile environment for those who are trying to enjoy our sport, but simply don't have the know-how that years of experience can bring.

Exactly. It's supposed to be fun. For everybody. Including the people that get stuck behind people being rude, or unaware, and the people that ARE unaware. Everybody has to start somewhere. We'd never really learn if others weren't here to help. As long as when you do learn something you then put it into practice. That's what it's all about.

"And a good time was had by all".

 

[Utah_jeepster]

I completely agree that rules of etiquette should be followed. This means getting off the trail when you're broken down, if at all possible, and if it's not, fixing what's wrong as quickly as possible. Those who don't have much mechanical skill should try to travel with those who do. However, let's not make the trails a hostile environment for those who are trying to enjoy our sport, but simply don't have the know-how that years of experience can bring.

I think we all agree on this but what cewtwo was saying that this vehicle owner had the knowledge to fix it but refused to move over making those behind him wait while they fixed it. And that is just plain rude.
Now if they couldn't move that is a different situation here...there are some places on the Rubicon trail if you break...your holding a lot of people up because there is no where to move to.

Now to those who don't know how to work on their jeep and you offer to help...well there more than likely to pay you for the trail repair, for getting them out of a hard situation. And yes they will learn from this experience and carry that part or the required things to get themselves out of that situation in the future.
But those experienced off-roaders well they deserve what happens...they know better and still take the risks, then when it happens there mad and pizzed off at the world because it happened.
Its not a question if your going to break down...but when. Be prepared and if you don't have the parts with you and a passer by does, be gracious and offer to pay for the parts, heck it cost that person the same amount of money he most likely will charge you to buy that part in the first place.

 

[smell my dirty poodle]

word needs to get out about this vast pool of knowledge(web site)thus educating the common off-road driver the finer points of off-road ettiquette.
"Jeepz.com" windshield stickers any one? 8)

 

[cewtwo]

Generally, these things are resolved amicably. People listen, participate and cooperate to resolve any trail problems.

I do remember being on Holy Cross trail last year. As we came up on Holy Cross city, there was an older (heavily modified) vehicle at the Frenchman's creek crossing. This crossing has a major rock situated right in the middle of the creek. This massive rock has to be traversed as there is not enough room on either side for a vehicle to pass.

When we arrived, this vehicle was on the rock. He had popped his coil spring from the passenger front wheel (due to the extreme flex required). People had been waiting 2 hours for him to clear the obstacle.

On person came up and asked what was taking so long. The owner of the vehicle told him he had to fix it in place. Suddenly a discussion started regarding why he didn't move. This guy showed him how to move the vehicle (ten feet to the side) and put the coil spring back into place. The owner refused thinking he knew better (he was actually goaded on by his wife who was accompanying him). Everyone else started asking why he wouldn't take the help. Asking why he was insisting on staying in the trail.

Once the owner and his wife were seperated from the vehicle, he listened as people were becoming a lot less patient with him. He acquiesced to the move. They strapped up to another Jeep, moved the rig, and cheering started as the obstacle was cleared! Most of those on the other side of the obstacle stayed and assisted him in returning the coil spring back into place. Within 15 minutes, he was repaired and back on the trail.

Bad feelings can be created during situations on the trail. But if cool heads prevail and listen to logic, situations can be resolved quickly and easily without blocking others. One stubborn person can sometimes be compelled to listen to a larger group without necessarily causing bad feelings, but it does take two people to tango!

Besides, I am sure that the people calling for a rope that day were kidding!!! At least, I hope so. It was just below timberline and just scrub brush was around...

 

[cewtwo]

How does everyone feel about taking dogs along?

I jokingly talk about the Mighty YJ being "Molly's Doghouse."

It quite literally is. Since she was a puppy the back seat has been a replacement crate. She has gone along on every trail run I have been on since I got her.

Molly and her "Doghouse."

 

[Utah_jeepster]

How does everyone feel about taking dogs along?

I jokingly talk about the Mighty YJ being "Molly's Doghouse."

It quite literally is. Since she was a puppy the back seat has been a replacement crate. She has gone along on every trail run I have been on since I got her.

Molly and her "Doghouse."

Can you say emergency trail food?!?!urple: