On my way home tonigh my 97 TJ with 4cyl acted like it was low on power and was sputtering at idel. Once I stopped the check engine light came on. I got home and broke out the old Haynes manual. and retrieved the trouble codes. I got #12, #11, #21, #65, and #55. I figured out that 21 is the oxygen sensor, and 55 is the end of codes. The bokk says that 12 is the PCM lost power and 11 is no crank signal of some sort. I can't find anything for #65. I guess I need to start with a new Oxy sensor. ( what will that set me back? If I can find a parts house that has one in this podunk town) But what does the rest of this stuff mean.. Will it all rectify itself with a new oxy sensor?
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Trouble codes
- Thread starter arkypyro
- Start date
Hi,
Loss of the signal from the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) is far more likely to cause problems than the 02 sensor dropping out. You especially tend to notice stumbling, loss of power, random returns to idle speed during driving, and poor idle if the CPS is not working correctly. I just replaced the CPS on my '97 wrangler as I was having similar problems. They are all gone now. :mrgreen:
-Nick :!:
arkypyro said:and 11 is no crank signal of some sort.
Loss of the signal from the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) is far more likely to cause problems than the 02 sensor dropping out. You especially tend to notice stumbling, loss of power, random returns to idle speed during driving, and poor idle if the CPS is not working correctly. I just replaced the CPS on my '97 wrangler as I was having similar problems. They are all gone now. :mrgreen:
-Nick :!:
RE: Re: Trouble codes
Hi,
The CPS is held to the transmission bellhousing by two bolts. It is near the top of the bellhousing but off towards the driver's side some. Undo the two bolts and unplug the electrical connector to remove the sensor. It is pretty easy.
The sensor is $89.99 at autozone. I tried buying the sensor at advanced auto parts (where it was cheaper), but the one they sold had the wrong electrical connector. So be sure and check the connectors before you buy one.
-Nick :!:
Hi,
The CPS is held to the transmission bellhousing by two bolts. It is near the top of the bellhousing but off towards the driver's side some. Undo the two bolts and unplug the electrical connector to remove the sensor. It is pretty easy.
The sensor is $89.99 at autozone. I tried buying the sensor at advanced auto parts (where it was cheaper), but the one they sold had the wrong electrical connector. So be sure and check the connectors before you buy one.
-Nick :!:
BrucePorter
New member
You know, it is odd to get such unrelated error codes. It is possible to burn up the Catalytic if the engine is missing. I wonder if the two problems are unrelated or occured at the same time.
If they occured at the same time then I might suspect a ground on the engine or possibly a bad ground or power connection somewhere else.
I recently replaced the O2 sensor, even though it didn't solve my problem, and it is simple.
The CPS is also simple. Bolts out and in without adjustments.
I would check the harnesses though to see if the cables touch the manifold.
There is also a theory (of mine) that you need to find a dealer that has the specialized equipment that connects to the OBD plug under the column and actually tests the analog signals going into the ECM. This is not something that gets checked by the ECM itself. The ECM will give a code if there is a problem with one of the sensors that is drastic, such as open or short. This will probably not solve your problems.
If they occured at the same time then I might suspect a ground on the engine or possibly a bad ground or power connection somewhere else.
I recently replaced the O2 sensor, even though it didn't solve my problem, and it is simple.
The CPS is also simple. Bolts out and in without adjustments.
I would check the harnesses though to see if the cables touch the manifold.
There is also a theory (of mine) that you need to find a dealer that has the specialized equipment that connects to the OBD plug under the column and actually tests the analog signals going into the ECM. This is not something that gets checked by the ECM itself. The ECM will give a code if there is a problem with one of the sensors that is drastic, such as open or short. This will probably not solve your problems.
Sorry....I have to brag....
I replaced the CPS and it didn't help at all. I then replaced the Pre-cat o2 sensor and that appears to have fixed it. I still feel that I am a bit under power and wonder if my Cat isn't clogged. I have a muffler guy who will help me to get rid of the cat but what problems might that cause me with my sensors. I know if I get rid of it the exhaust will not build as much heat and can see where that might mess with my o2 sensors.
I replaced the CPS and it didn't help at all. I then replaced the Pre-cat o2 sensor and that appears to have fixed it. I still feel that I am a bit under power and wonder if my Cat isn't clogged. I have a muffler guy who will help me to get rid of the cat but what problems might that cause me with my sensors. I know if I get rid of it the exhaust will not build as much heat and can see where that might mess with my o2 sensors.
BrucePorter
New member
RE: Sorry....I have to brag....
If you are in California, then the smog check guys will catch it. Otherwise you might look at JCWhitney to see what it costs for a new high flow version and just replace it. I have heard that the mufflers get plugged too. Maybe having the muffler shop look at the pressures in front of and behind the catalytic will tell you the health of the system. There is simply no check of sensors that can tell you this. It has to be done with a pressure check and I believe that this could indeed be a problem, despite what an individual muffler shop might tell you. There is also a reduced flow area in the coupler between the muffler and the catalytic on the SE.
If you are in California, then the smog check guys will catch it. Otherwise you might look at JCWhitney to see what it costs for a new high flow version and just replace it. I have heard that the mufflers get plugged too. Maybe having the muffler shop look at the pressures in front of and behind the catalytic will tell you the health of the system. There is simply no check of sensors that can tell you this. It has to be done with a pressure check and I believe that this could indeed be a problem, despite what an individual muffler shop might tell you. There is also a reduced flow area in the coupler between the muffler and the catalytic on the SE.
BrucePorter
New member
I don't think you can do this without getting a cheek engine light. The Front O2 sensor is used to adjust the fuel mixture for complete combustion. The downstream O2 is there to diagnose the catalytic. I would bet that you can not run without either one, unless you generate a voltage somehow into the ECM on the front one and ground the downstream side. I believe that the O2 sensor does generate a voltage when there is unspent fuel in the exhaust and therefor could not be replaced with some resistive value to ground. I do think that there are plugs available though that do substitute the O2 sensor and fool the ECM. You would likely get more power without the cat and a high flow (noisy) muffler.
nkdskls1978
New member
Re: RE: E-brake??
I had a problem with the harness grounding out on the block (passenger side back of the block - 4 cyl TJ) .. my jeep would stall and jump violently and just act a fool every now and then ... ran the codes and got a bunch of junk ...I was at a loss and out of town so I let my WIFE take it to a transmission shop .. cost me $1000 because they said the jumping and stalling tore up the transmission ...(HORSECRAP) ... lesson learned.. dont let your woman tell the man to "fix whatever is wrong with it".... I would have never taken it so atleast it got fixed..
I gutted the cat also ( it rattled).. got better air flow,more pick up, and a funny smell I think to go with the K&N and TBS .. I dont ike the echo sound though ... need to run a straight pipe there now...
I had a problem with the harness grounding out on the block (passenger side back of the block - 4 cyl TJ) .. my jeep would stall and jump violently and just act a fool every now and then ... ran the codes and got a bunch of junk ...I was at a loss and out of town so I let my WIFE take it to a transmission shop .. cost me $1000 because they said the jumping and stalling tore up the transmission ...(HORSECRAP) ... lesson learned.. dont let your woman tell the man to "fix whatever is wrong with it".... I would have never taken it so atleast it got fixed..
I gutted the cat also ( it rattled).. got better air flow,more pick up, and a funny smell I think to go with the K&N and TBS .. I dont ike the echo sound though ... need to run a straight pipe there now...
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