Welding diffs

[Collin the Hen]

Well I've torn into my axles and am wondering about welding gears.

First, I've read about "Fozzy" lockers and Lincoln lockers. I'm leaning towards the Fozzy locker because you can always take it out and put in a lunch box or even an open spider set (I have an extra set). What are your thoughts about that? I just want a way out if I don't like street driving with a locker.

Also, if I welded the front, could I leave one hub unlocked for tighter turning or would that be too hard on the disengaged hub?

Thanks for the advise. :shades:

 

[jhoe_20]

I thought about doing the same thing, but i read alot of bad things so i ended up just buying a spool for 50 bucks on ebay that way if something breaks it wont take out the whole gear set.

 

[Boze]

My dad put a powertrax locker in his 69 Chevelle. It was under 200 bucks if I remmeber right. It came with two different spring strengths Street and strip. the strip springs made his rearend hop and tires chirp when he would turn at intersections from a stop. If he had some forward momentum he could turn with no problem, (except for the gnarly pop coming from his 12 bolt). With street springs in he could turn from a stop no sweat and the popping was minimal. The only time the tires chirpped was when doing U-turns, (which is nothing a quick blip on the 'ol 427 couldn't fix). ANY WHO, I said all that to say this: I think a powertrax would work awesome in a Jeep and I need someone to try it out before I do in case it just destroys everything. Go ahead...be the guinee pig, you know you want to!

 

[jhoe_20]

I also thought about a powertrax for mine..but after some research they can only handle up to 33" tires.

 

[Boze]

They may say they can only handle 33's but I don't buy it. I'm talking about a BUILT 427 in a 3500 pound car with traction bars! I have personaly been in the thing doing 30 Mph, reved it to 5 grand, shifted down to second and dumped the clutch. That big 'ol girl lauched like a Semi truck rearended me at 70! That's more torque than any 4.0 L jeep coulp put down I don't care how big your tires are or how low you're geared. It held together for three years of getting flogged every weekend. I jsut don't think you would want it on a daily driver Jeep because it would get squirly going through intersections and u turns, (not as bad as a Lincoln locked diff I guess). Just my opinion, but I think the powertrax could handle anything a stock engine Jeep could ever dream of dishing out.

 

[Collin the Hen]

I thought about doing the same thing, but i read alot of bad things so i ended up just buying a spool for 50 bucks on ebay that way if something breaks it wont take out the whole gear set.

This is what the "Fozzy" locker is. You take out the spiders and weld in between the teeth so that it will no longer mesh but only in one spot so they fit in the carrier. Basically a mini spool. I'm pretty sure I'll do this now and see how it drives. Like I said, I have an extra set of spiders, so there is a way out.

Eventually a lunch box would be nice and easy, but they aren't free.
The front has stock, and most likely tired shafts, so I'll probably leave it open unless I can lock the carrier and only engage one hub. The rear, however, has Superior shafts, so I think they're ready for anything.

 

[88Wrangles]

Why wouldn't you be able to take out a lincoln locker and put back in stock spiders or a regular locker?

 

[88Wrangles]

Also make sure you don't get a posi unit, get an actual locker if you go that route.

 

[Collin the Hen]

Well, typically with a Lincoln locker, you just weld the spiders to the carrier so they don't move and melt a couple extra rods in between the gears for good measure. This allows no slop, and from what I've read, they can sometimes grenade, ruin carriers, and mess up housings. Of course, this is probably with 40 inch swampers on Bubba's bobbed Chevy Sub.
So, if that would happen, you'd have to buy a new carrier and reset some stuff.

Also make sure you don't get a posi unit, get an actual locker if you go that route.

As in posi unit, do you mean a lunch box locker? I understand that concern, however, I'll probably never run above 32's in the near future because I'm gearing to 3.54's. I don't think that would be too much for a little guy. I have a feather foot, too.

Yes, I know, "Buy a real locker"... :roll:

 

[Collin the Hen]

Thank you guys for the input. :mrgreen:

 

[88Wrangles]

Well, typically with a Lincoln locker, you just weld the spiders to the carrier so they don't move and melt a couple extra rods in between the gears for good measure. This allows no slop, and from what I've read, they can sometimes grenade, ruin carriers, and mess up housings. Of course, this is probably with 40 inch swampers on Bubba's bobbed Chevy Sub.
So, if that would happen, you'd have to buy a new carrier and reset some stuff.



As in posi unit, do you mean a lunch box locker? I understand that concern, however, I'll probably never run above 32's in the near future because I'm gearing to 3.54's. I don't think that would be too much for a little guy. I have a feather foot, too.

Yes, I know, "Buy a real locker"... :roll:

Just weld it good enough and it will not do that. Yes you'd have to use a new carrier to put new spider gears in, but you certainly can take the welded gears out and put a new carrier and gears in at any time.

 

[88Wrangles]

And Posi's types are much weaker and "give" at a certain point and allow the tires to spin. They also generally don't lock up until a certain RMP. They're alright for low powered rigs on the street, but that's about it.

 

[Collin the Hen]

Just weld it good enough and it will not do that. Yes you'd have to use a new carrier to put new spider gears in, but you certainly can take the welded gears out and put a new carrier and gears in at any time.

Indeed I could.

And Posi's types are much weaker and "give" at a certain point and allow the tires to spin. They also generally don't lock up until a certain RMP. They're alright for low powered rigs on the street, but that's about it.

Lunch boxes are always locked, but they ratchet when cornering. Is this the "posi" you are talking about?

Either way, I'm not buying an official locker for quite a while.

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

A 'posi' is a slang term for limited slip differential, NOT a locker.

Don't do a 'fozzy' locker. Filling in the teeth of the spider and side gears allows for too much slop in the assembly. Carry a little weight in the jeep and/or get in a high traction situation and the side gears and spider gears will try to climb over each other. The only direction they can go is to be pushed apart, which WILL break the stock carrier. If you're going to weld, weld a lincoln locker and be done.

Spools and mini-spools are great options if you have a d44 or larger axle. They're not available for d30 and d35 axles.

I run spools in both my d44's, and ran front and rear lincoln lockers for years before that when I had my stock d30/35. Never any problems.

If you run a front spool, you can unlock one hub for easier turning on tight trails. Be careful though because 50% of your torque is now going to only one front axleshaft ujoint instead of two. I'd run both unlocked until you need the traction of having them both locked in.

 

[Collin the Hen]

A 'posi' is a slang term for limited slip differential, NOT a locker.

Don't do a 'fozzy' locker. Filling in the teeth of the spider and side gears allows for too much slop in the assembly. Carry a little weight in the jeep and/or get in a high traction situation and the side gears and spider gears will try to climb over each other. The only direction they can go is to be pushed apart, which WILL break the stock carrier. If you're going to weld, weld a lincoln locker and be done.

Spools and mini-spools are great options if you have a d44 or larger axle. They're not available for d30 and d35 axles.

I run spools in both my d44's, and ran front and rear lincoln lockers for years before that when I had my stock d30/35. Never any problems.

If you run a front spool, you can unlock one hub for easier turning on tight trails. Be careful though because 50% of your torque is now going to only one front axleshaft ujoint instead of two. I'd run both unlocked until you need the traction of having them both locked in.

Thank you very much for that info. I was wondering about the slop. I've read that slop was easier on the carrier, but now that you mention the pushing and shoving it would cause, I'll probably just throw a rod or two in there strategically. Ebay has some really nice spools for 219 for the AMC20, so I may go that route later on.

Also, with the front axle, I will probably leave it open due to stock shafts.

Thanks again for the info, guys. You are all my heroes. :wub:

 

[88Wrangles]

Ya what bounty said! sorry it was a long day at work and I guess i could have explained that just a little better! haha

 

[Collin the Hen]

Ya what bounty said! sorry it was a long day at work and I guess i could have explained that just a little better! haha

No problem. I just always thought posi was a locker and not a LSD. Now I know. Thanks!

 

[Collin the Hen]

Well, just in case anyone is curious, I welded up my carrier this evening. I did a somewhat functional Fozzy locker style weld AND I welded the gears to the carrier as well. I just wanted to make sure that if my primary welds break, the welds on the spiders will keep it from moving.

I was scared because the cross pin wouldn't go back in even though I tacked the gears with the pin in. Turns out it just needed encouragement. I placed the carrier in my housing and the shafts slid right in.

Again, thank you gentlemen for the advise.

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Nothing wrong with filling in the teeth as insurance, just be sure to completely fill in the 8 pockets where the gears mesh. When welding the gears to the carrier, it's a good idea to use a high nickle rod or preheat the cast carrier.