You Gotta Be Kidding Me......

[Sparky-Watts]

so what was it that Libby did that was so horrible again???
OH, he LIED.

So BUSH is wrong for not making a man serve a prison sentence for lying, and the left is crying foul about that. The same people who praised Clinton for "coming clean" and admitting that he lied.

Yeah, I sure don't see a double standard there.

If ya'll want to bash Bush, bash his amnesty deal. Easy target, 80% of the US was against it, and he is still trying to push it through.

Sparky, could you tell me why it is that you think Scooter Libby is "dangerous"?

Libby was NOT the one who leaked the info. Did you understand that?

Yeah, I did understand my mistake at saying Libby is the one who leaked the info, but the thread immediately went to **** when the ****head brothers chimed in, so I never bothered to change my original post. Libby is the one who covered for the guy that leaked the info. Point here is that Libby lied to the courts, which is breaking the law. That law carries a specific penalty which includes jail time, and despite who you are, you should be held to that penalty.

If I had wanted to bash Bush for is amnesty deal, I would've started a thread about his amnesty deal, duh! But I didn't, did I? No. I started a thread about him protecting one of his cronies who broke the law by keeping him out of jail. I expected a healthy debate as to why he should or shouldn't be put in jail from the more intelligent side of this board, but so far I haven't seen any of them except Mud.:roll: Why do you always have to make this a "left vs. right" issue? To me, it's not about who is a Republican or who is a Democrat, it is about a worthless president abusing the power of his office to keep his buttbuddy out of jail, and to me that is far worse than anything Clinton did. Clinton admitted that he lied and was rewarded with impeachment proceedings; Libby still refuses to admit that he lied and gets to walk. Yeah, I do see a double standard here. :roll: You yourself have said it in the past, if someone does something illegal, they should pay the price. (Maybe not in those exact words, but that's the essence of what you have said).

 

[jeepguy46176]

Somebodys a Whacko ! I am leaning more towards one than two though.

 

[wm69]

Yeah, 90, that's exactly what I said.:roll:

What is it about you and TC that gets you both so mad you act like children when someone says anything negative about Bush? This post and TC's post above are prime examples of the behavior this board has come to expect and regret when any discussion goes against your way of thinking. Your post about all of Clinton's pardons had absolutely nothing to do with the original topic, nor in any way did it do anything constructive to debate the original topic. It was posted solely to take the focus off of Bush's actions by pointing out something someone else did years ago. If you have something topical and relevant to say as to why you don't agree with my post or why you don't think Libby should go to jail, then fine, go ahead and post it. But just two long lists of people pardoned by Clinton do neither. If you're not just doing it to bash Clinton, why didn't you mention any of the other pardons given by Bush or by any other president? Again, you and TC's childish behavior has given me a reminder of why I took a vacation from this board the last time, and I guess it's time to do so again. That's a shame, too, because I enjoy pretty much all but two people here and if those two people would take a permanent vacation from here, this board would have a lot more members. So, take a hint.

With all due respect Sparky, most of the people on this board would be much more likely to agree with TC or Xjay than you when it comes to politics. Jeepers are like shooters; they tend to lean to the right politically. Doesn't mean there are some diehard libs who are Jeepers, just means there tend to me more neocons than libs in these circles.

Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, and I don't think anyone should suggest that someone else leave simply because they disagree with someone else.

That being said, I think Twisted, Xjay and I have all repectfully disagreed with your original post and posted WHY we disagree with it. You obviously fall into those mentioned in the article I posted who will do anything to have a "gotcha!" on Bush. As we all stated there are plenty of things to "gotcha" him with, but we don't think this Libby thing is legit.

Am I a Bush fan? Not anymore. As his term has progressed he has slowly lost my support, and he really ticked me off with this illegal crap he's been pushing. That siad I will NOT see EVERYTHING he does as wrong. I don't paint with that broad brush. In this case I think he did the right thing, except that after researching the case I think Bush should give Libby a full pardon. This was a witch hunt, nothing more.

TC and Xjay also pointed out that there are MANY flaws to take Bush to task over if you wish to bash him. We just happen to think this is not one of the things he's done wrong.

You never DID answer my question as to WHY you think Scooter Libby is "dangerous". Why should this man be in prison? Libby was NOT the one who leaked the woman's identity.

If you want to discuss politics ONLY with those who always agree with you, find a liberal chat board and discuss politics there. If you want to discuss politics here you will get different opinions that yours. It's really not worth getting riled up about, Sparky. All of us have different opinions about different things. That's life. It sure not worth ANY of us leaving the board over.............

 

[TwistedCU]

Ya know what... you have gotten soooo easy to read over the time you've been on Jeepz Sparky. IT's when you do two things that I know you are frustrated and that adult discussion has been removed as a possibility. These two things are as follows:

1. You accuse me or anyone else debating you of being "mad", "angry", or "childish"
(and)
2. You make assumption that you know my thoughts, feelings, or intentions and post accordingly.

I am neither angry or childish, and if I recall correctly you have taken "vacations" from Jeepz because of your lack of self control. I am sure you somehow blame me for it, but the truth is you merely saved the moderators from suspending you by being good enough to recognize your actions for what they were and to your credit you took the initiative to spare them the ordeal.

You ask why I don't bow out of this thread? Because like many other of your posts and threads on political opinion I completely disagree with you, and that makes for good discussion or debate... or at least it should. I just have a difficult time letting you post what I view (emphasis on that for clarification) to be nonsensical half truths and quotes from the leftist rags' complaints about the conservatives in our government without offering a voice of reason to those who may be uninformed on the topic and reading your rantings. You could probably say the same about your feelings when you read a post from a conservative standpoint. It only makes sense for a person to want to share a differing view when they hold one. The thing is I am always reluctant to enter discussion with you because of your past actions and some of the vile PM's you have sent me.

Angry? Mad? No way baby... I live for this stuff. Childish? Not a chance. I have come to realize that "childish" is your description for anyone who disagrees with you, and any argument or criticism of your political posts is always tagged as insult or combative by you. You accuse others of anger or being "mad"? Take a look in the mirror. I'm smiling right now. Not only does this mean absolutely nothing to me, I know in 5 minutes I'll be sleeping like a baby next to the love of my life. This website, although a good one and full of fond memories to me, is merely a recreational and reference (as to Jeeps) tool so letting some cyber ego ruin my state of mind just ain't gonna happen.

SO there you go... you can actually tag me with a negative connotation accurately this time... and that is being a bit arrogant here, but that goes hand in hand with the complete confidence that I have in knowing I am right about you... and politics :lol:

So with that post I would assume this thread may get locked, but this needed to be said, as anyone who enters political discussion with you is walking on eggshells. So re-read this post, and ask yourself if I have directly insulted you here, or if anything I have typed is anything but a rational expression of one man's views before you assign tags to it. THis, and understand there is a huge difference between explaining/supporting a differing opinion and attacking someone. In other words, get some thicker skin there big guy

As for Me, I'm clicking the X in the upper right and gonna lay my head down. Good night.

 

[mingez]

Lets make this the last post of the thread guys...shall we?

Although I don't know how I missed it. All I know is that Joey Chestnut just beat Kobayashi at the Nathan's hotdog eating contest.

Finally, an American has won! (Albeit Kobayashi had a jaw injury)

 

[90Xjay]

Lets make this the last post of the thread guys...shall we?

and with that thought.... good night

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

I haven't seen any 'childish' posts or blatant personal attacks, just differing opinions and viewpoints.

We should keep in mind that most all political type threads take this turn, and post accordingly. Respect the opinions of others, even if they go off on a tangent.

I will delete or lock this thread should it get worse.

 

[KrazyJeeper]

BH, I agree, just some good ole discussions going on, bottom line is this, it is a forum for discussion and if you post, people can respond. Plain and simple, take it with a grain of salt and drive on. Explicits are not necessary nor are they mature, except in a bar environment, which we all know tends to magnify until someone is hurt or in jail. Open forum is, what it is. We are all people fond of Jeeps, that doesn't make us political companions. Just my humble opinion on this thread.

 

[wm69]

Yeah, I did understand my mistake at saying Libby is the one who leaked the info, but the thread immediately went to **** when the ****head brothers chimed in, so I never bothered to change my original post. Libby is the one who covered for the guy that leaked the info. Point here is that Libby lied to the courts, which is breaking the law. That law carries a specific penalty which includes jail time, and despite who you are, you should be held to that penalty.

If I had wanted to bash Bush for is amnesty deal, I would've started a thread about his amnesty deal, duh! But I didn't, did I? No. I started a thread about him protecting one of his cronies who broke the law by keeping him out of jail. I expected a healthy debate as to why he should or shouldn't be put in jail from the more intelligent side of this board, but so far I haven't seen any of them except Mud.:roll: Why do you always have to make this a "left vs. right" issue? To me, it's not about who is a Republican or who is a Democrat, it is about a worthless president abusing the power of his office to keep his buttbuddy out of jail, and to me that is far worse than anything Clinton did. Clinton admitted that he lied and was rewarded with impeachment proceedings; Libby still refuses to admit that he lied and gets to walk. Yeah, I do see a double standard here. :roll: You yourself have said it in the past, if someone does something illegal, they should pay the price. (Maybe not in those exact words, but that's the essence of what you have said).

Libby is not "walking". He has a felony on his record, he had to pay a 1/4 million in fines, and he's on probation. His career is over. He will always have the stigma of this hanging over his head. Is that not punishment enough? I guess we should take a pound of flesh......
I hate to bring ole Billy boy into the mix again but he also commited perjury and I don't remember him serving time either.
Clinton has been brought into this thread largely because precedent is a huge part of the laws in this country. We see a President admit to lying under oath and get a slap on the wrist, then we see a bureaucrat allegedly lie and the resident lessens his punishment to a comparable slap on the wrist. Is one worse than the other?
Let's put Libby in jail, but only if Bill is his cellmate. THAT would be fair.


Point here is that Libby lied to the courts, which is breaking the law. That law carries a specific penalty which includes jail time, and despite who you are, you should be held to that penalty.

Rational thinking here would indicate that you think our former President should be serving time. Is that the case?
I kind of expect the reply of "We're not talking about President Clinton here" but if we are going to determine whether or not Libby should be serving time here I think it's totally reasonable to compare the situation to another high profile perjury case that was nothing more than a political "gotcha" witch hunt (both cases were totally politically fueled) and it would also be reasonable to compare the punishments of the cases to determine whether or not something here was unfair. Again, precendent plays a big part of the law
in this country. Always has. Bringing up past Presidents' affinity for pardons just shows that this case is nothing out of the ordinary. The precedent is there. Does that make the Presidential pardon OK? THAT is a whole 'nother arguement, but if we're going to allow the Executive branch to pardon people, we have to allow it to happen regardless of the man if office, not just when our respective parties are in power.

 

[TwistedCU]

We see a President admit to lying under oath and get a slap on the wrist, then we see a bureaucrat allegedly lie and the resident lessens his punishment to a comparable slap on the wrist. Is one worse than the other?

Well Clinton didn't even get a slap on the wrist. There were no consequences for his actions at all.

 

[wm69]

Well Clinton didn't even get a slap on the wrist. There were no consequences for his actions at all.

Ah, you're right. I thought he had been disbarred, but after a google turns out that the Supreme Court INTENDED to disbar him for lying under oath in the Paula Jones case AND in the Lewinsky deal, but he resigned before they disbarred him. He lost is AR law license for 5 years and had to pay $25K in fines too. VERY light slap on the wrist.
My mistake.

 

[mud4feet]

what good would impeaching him do at this point and what would be the grounds for it?

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1639

http://www.serendipity.li/impeachment.htm

It wouldn't do much now other than perhaps save some face with the rest of the world. As to the rest of the ranting, "liberal", "conservative", "far right", "far left", "hillbilly", "n****", "wetback", "kike", etc. etc.................I don't go much for the label thing. I consider myself a "Christian American" and not real proud of it at the moment..........the "American" part of it, that is.

 

[mudwoman]

It looks like the 28% of Americans who still approve of GW post on this board-

 

[mud4feet]

With all due respect Sparky, most of the people on this board would be much more likely to agree with TC or Xjay than you when it comes to politics. Jeepers are like shooters; they tend to lean to the right politically.....

WHAT??!?!??!?!?!.................Says WHO????? Talk about generalizations!!!

And all Black people look alike and eat chicken and watermelon, right?


Geez!:roll: :roll:.............Please don't attempt to speak for me.

 

[90Xjay]

WHAT??!?!??!?!?!.................Says WHO????? Talk about generalizations!!!

And all Black people look alike and eat chicken and watermelon, right?


Geez!:roll: :roll:.............Please don't attempt to speak for me.

he said "most" not all , silly, now don't get your panties in a pinch!:lol: :lol:

 

[90Xjay]

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1639

http://www.serendipity.li/impeachment.htm

It wouldn't do much now other than perhaps save some face with the rest of the world...

well, thats where we split, I don't care much about what the rest of the world thinks, I guess I am an American elitist. Like I said, I'm not proud of Bush and he has lost my support on about 90% of everything he is doing/not doing with his time left, but I'd rather be in America arguing over it than in England talking about how great is USED to be to own firearmsurple: urple:

 

[TwistedCU]

It looks like the 28% of Americans who still approve of GW post on this board-

He lost me with the Immigration "reform" bill. That said, I have very little faith in polls.

I still would prefer him to withe John Kerry or Algore but that is now as the lesser of 2 evils in both cases.

What a long way he has travelled from the "smaller government", "spend conservatively" ticket he ran on in 2000 I understand 9/11 changed many factors but GEEZ!

As for the war, I fault him just as I do the presidents that were in office during Vietnam - for letting the media, special interest, and foreign influence dictate how we deal with war and terror threats. Both conflicts should have been short, vicious, and successful. Yeah vicious... war is hell and why bother trying to win one **messing** around!?!?!?!?! We worry about being nice (lack of better term) about it and as we save their lives we lose our boys as a result.

I mean seriously... would I go up to a guy who was trying to assault a woman in front of you and flick him in the nose? No way... I'd go bananas.. on him, unleashing all I am capable of. I know the analogy is a bit of a stretch, but the same approach would have had us with far fewer casualties and much more success. Instead, we send our boys out there with kid gloves to fight ruthless terrorists that consider dying a privilege and an honor if it means a dead American.

So no.... of the 28% I am not.

 

[mud4feet]

he said "most" not all , silly, now don't get your panties in a pinch!:lol: :lol:

Silly???? Panties in a pinch????!!!!! Man, if you were here right now.............I'd...............I'd.................I'd..................................

I'll be right back..........my panties are pinching me!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

We do get excited here at times, don't we?:shock: :?| :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Free speech is such a great thing.............something we tend to take for granted.

 

[90Xjay]

Silly???? Panties in a pinch????!!!!! Man, if you were here right now.............I'd...............I'd.................I'd..................................

I'll be right back..........my panties are pinching me!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

We do get excited here at times, don't we?:shock: :?| :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Free speech is such a great thing.............something we tend to take for granted.

It's all in good fun Mudd, you know I respect your views, you are a decent person with a good heart.






[you can send me that $$ we talked about in a PM to my PalPal account]

 

[wm69]

WHAT??!?!??!?!?!.................Says WHO????? Talk about generalizations!!!

And all Black people look alike and eat chicken and watermelon, right?


Geez!:roll: :roll:.............Please don't attempt to speak for me.

Aw come on, I also said "Doesn't mean there are some diehard libs who are Jeepers, just means there tend to me more neocons than libs in these circles."

If we took a vote, my claim would be substantiated. I've seen it on Jeepforum, Jeepsunlimited, Jeepz, and CJ-8.com. Take a poll and see liberal vs conservative and there are more conservative Jeepers than liberal Jeepers, at least among the chatroom folk.

All the black folk I know do eat chicken and watermelon, but then again all the white folk I know also eat chicken and watermelon.......

I have said once in this thread, and will say again, I am no longer a W fan. He lost my support quite a while ago. I respect the office, but I have NOT been pleased with this so called conservative's decisions, especially on big govt./spending and the border policy. He has also mishandled Iraq, not in going in there, but as TC said, by not allowing our military to fight and win.