Genius!!
- Thread starter Special_K
- Start date
ThunderJEEP
New member
RE: Ripping interior
I dont belive it. Yahoo beat CNN to be the first ones to blaintly come out and say it. they have only hated us since about............ 10 + years since the first gulf war. And were just now finding out about it hu????????????
I dont belive it. Yahoo beat CNN to be the first ones to blaintly come out and say it. they have only hated us since about............ 10 + years since the first gulf war. And were just now finding out about it hu????????????
Inspector-Gadget
New member
You have to hand it to the news media.
Sometimes, they display an amazing grasp of the obvious.
Regards,
Gadget :mrgreen:
Sometimes, they display an amazing grasp of the obvious.
Regards,
Gadget :mrgreen:
siminsez01
New member
that's great
daveplot
New member
RE: 1998 Cherokee 2.5 td loses power/acceleration
The Islamic world has hated the US since our support of Israel after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire after World War I. We supported Israel in the four major wars of 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973. We also supported Egypt and other moderate Islamic nations durring this time so Russia didn't gain complete influence over the region.
judge09 said:I dont understand...why do they hate us
The Islamic world has hated the US since our support of Israel after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire after World War I. We supported Israel in the four major wars of 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973. We also supported Egypt and other moderate Islamic nations durring this time so Russia didn't gain complete influence over the region.
Special_K
New member
The Mounds - 5/21/2005
While true, that is not the most pressing issue. This history is just one relatively minor aspect. More important is a consistent set of precedents in our foreign actions (foreign policy) that have helped to generate hatred for America among Muslims (and many peoples). It's not our "freedoms" that are driving this hatred as some people like to trivialize, but because of our policies. This dislike is fueled largely by what is seen, often justificably, as hypocrisy by the U.S. and disgregard for other peoples in the pursuit of our own excessive financial self-interest.
Most U.S. citizens don't remember, don't realize, or choose to gloss over the fact that the U.S. propped up and supported Saddam's regime even while he was brutalizing and gassing his own citizens. Most Muslims haven't forgotten this. This is one of many examples of actions that conflict the messages we often send. The perception, simply put, is that the U.S. does whatever is in our own excessive financial self-interest and then tries to put a noble picture on it. At home, too many of us only see that noble picture and many of us darn near break our arms patting ourselves on the back for being so noble.
The notion that the Muslim world should be grateful to us for liberating them from Saddam is akin to a person raping someone then giving them a loaf of bread for their starving family and the wondering why the person doesn't seem to appreciate them for having been so kind as to give them bread for their starving family. They may not reject the bread, but you aren't going to be loved or showered with praise.
I am a bigger patriot than most people waving big flags yelling "proud to be American" but I recognize what the U.S. does in many of its foreign affairs, I recognize the inconsistencies, and in too many cases, it ain't pretty. Is it all bad? No. But too much is then we fool ourselves by saying they hate us for our freedoms. Just like when you have children, if you're truly concerned about them, you tell them when they're on the wrong track...you don't overlook it and pretend that they're doing fine.
My .02 worth.
daveplot said:judge09 said:I dont understand...why do they hate us
The Islamic world has hated the US since our support of Israel after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire after World War I. We supported Israel in the four major wars of 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973. We also supported Egypt and other moderate Islamic nations durring this time so Russia didn't gain complete influence over the region.
While true, that is not the most pressing issue. This history is just one relatively minor aspect. More important is a consistent set of precedents in our foreign actions (foreign policy) that have helped to generate hatred for America among Muslims (and many peoples). It's not our "freedoms" that are driving this hatred as some people like to trivialize, but because of our policies. This dislike is fueled largely by what is seen, often justificably, as hypocrisy by the U.S. and disgregard for other peoples in the pursuit of our own excessive financial self-interest.
Most U.S. citizens don't remember, don't realize, or choose to gloss over the fact that the U.S. propped up and supported Saddam's regime even while he was brutalizing and gassing his own citizens. Most Muslims haven't forgotten this. This is one of many examples of actions that conflict the messages we often send. The perception, simply put, is that the U.S. does whatever is in our own excessive financial self-interest and then tries to put a noble picture on it. At home, too many of us only see that noble picture and many of us darn near break our arms patting ourselves on the back for being so noble.
The notion that the Muslim world should be grateful to us for liberating them from Saddam is akin to a person raping someone then giving them a loaf of bread for their starving family and the wondering why the person doesn't seem to appreciate them for having been so kind as to give them bread for their starving family. They may not reject the bread, but you aren't going to be loved or showered with praise.
I am a bigger patriot than most people waving big flags yelling "proud to be American" but I recognize what the U.S. does in many of its foreign affairs, I recognize the inconsistencies, and in too many cases, it ain't pretty. Is it all bad? No. But too much is then we fool ourselves by saying they hate us for our freedoms. Just like when you have children, if you're truly concerned about them, you tell them when they're on the wrong track...you don't overlook it and pretend that they're doing fine.
My .02 worth.
RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: First JEEP stitches!!!
I like you...
everyone seems to think just because we critize one area of our goverment we are somehow Anti-American.
Its not just the Muslim world either...
The US Foriegn Policy is kind of like tourists to other nations, you dont care that they are there, they just get in the way, and I dont know about you, but when tourists start effecting my day to day life, no matter how much revenue they may bring to my home town...they can get really anoying.
Our goverment can help so many countries, but sometimes its mistakes effect thousands of innocent people.
I like you...
everyone seems to think just because we critize one area of our goverment we are somehow Anti-American.
Its not just the Muslim world either...
The US Foriegn Policy is kind of like tourists to other nations, you dont care that they are there, they just get in the way, and I dont know about you, but when tourists start effecting my day to day life, no matter how much revenue they may bring to my home town...they can get really anoying.
Our goverment can help so many countries, but sometimes its mistakes effect thousands of innocent people.
mingez
New member
Special_K said:daveplot said:judge09 said:I dont understand...why do they hate us
The Islamic world has hated the US since our support of Israel after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire after World War I. We supported Israel in the four major wars of 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973. We also supported Egypt and other moderate Islamic nations durring this time so Russia didn't gain complete influence over the region.
While true, that is not the most pressing issue. This history is just one relatively minor aspect. More important is a consistent set of precedents in our foreign actions (foreign policy) that have helped to generate hatred for America among Muslims (and many peoples). It's not our "freedoms" that are driving this hatred as some people like to trivialize, but because of our policies. This dislike is fueled largely by what is seen, often justificably, as hypocrisy by the U.S. and disgregard for other peoples in the pursuit of our own excessive financial self-interest.
Most U.S. citizens don't remember, don't realize, or choose to gloss over the fact that the U.S. propped up and supported Saddam's regime even while he was brutalizing and gassing his own citizens. Most Muslims haven't forgotten this. This is one of many examples of actions that conflict the messages we often send. The perception, simply put, is that the U.S. does whatever is in our own excessive financial self-interest and then tries to put a noble picture on it. At home, too many of us only see that noble picture and many of us darn near break our arms patting ourselves on the back for being so noble.
The notion that the Muslim world should be grateful to us for liberating them from Saddam is akin to a person raping someone then giving them a loaf of bread for their starving family and the wondering why the person doesn't seem to appreciate them for having been so kind as to give them bread for their starving family. They may not reject the bread, but you aren't going to be loved or showered with praise.
I am a bigger patriot than most people waving big flags yelling "proud to be American" but I recognize what the U.S. does in many of its foreign affairs, I recognize the inconsistencies, and in too many cases, it ain't pretty. Is it all bad? No. But too much is then we fool ourselves by saying they hate us for our freedoms. Just like when you have children, if you're truly concerned about them, you tell them when they're on the wrong track...you don't overlook it and pretend that they're doing fine.
My .02 worth.
X 2
But I will add that a lot of blame goes to the Brits and the French and their mishandling of the land and border issues which arose after the Ottoman Empire went down at the closing of WWI. They lit the fire, current history simply poured fuel on that fire.
TwistedCU
New member
Honestly, you have a worse view of our people than they do. Some of us have a lot more sense than you give us credit for, and I also know you look at our country with the intent to find a reason to criticize. I have read enough of your posts to say that confidently.Special_K said:
Excessive financial self-interest... please. Like those countries are just docile little communities trying to life live in peace and keep to themselves. Wake up man.
The support we have given them in the past was support for their country's defense in order to try to maintain a balance over there. It was not for him to abuse people. Unbalance in the midde east costs us a lot of money and makes the entire world unstable.Special_K said:
A better analogy would depict it as you gave a kid a job to help him get a start in life, but instead he took the $$$ he earned and built a drug ring. Sometimes you throw someone a line and they hang themselves with it. He bit the hand that fed him and he paid dearly for it.
Your post makes it sound like we knowingly and willingly funded him so he could abuse his power. Heck even you should be able to see we wouldnt do that.
The more I have read over the past few years about the history over there the more I see how our country has helped to avoid alot of bloodshed in the middle east, and not just in Isreal.
My post was supposed to be sarcastic but I forgot how that is lost over the internet. These replys are great though. Its just another example how different people in THIS country have different ideas of what is going on yet some how find a way to live together and dont feel the need to blow each other up. (generalizing I know)
Special_K
New member
TwistedCopper said:
I can say a lot of good things about my country....but there's enough of that and that is my point. In fact there is usually too much of that, becuase then you have that side represented at the expense of appreciating the real issues that we're dealing with and you can only begin to resolve a problem when you appreciate the real causes of that problem. There is much more often a lack, in these types of discussions, of the other side of the coin. That is the side more often than not, that I weigh in on. It's not my sole opinion, just the severely underrepresented one.
When have you acknowledged some of the justifiable reasons that other people have to be disgruntled with America? Is it because there are none? Do you believe we're the white knight riding in on every single occasion to rescue these little countries from themselves? Is the anti-American sentiment around the world due to people that hate our freedoms? Wake up man.
TwistedCopper said:
Okay, as for your analogy, that's fine. I do recognize and look at the potential virtues and good intentions of some otherwise smelly deals or actions...believe me, that's not lost on me. I see something like that, however minor, almost every month if not every other week and often acknowledge the sheer necessity of it. But even so, the question is not why do I hate America...I don't. The question is why do THEY hate us...and therefore you have to take into account THEIR perspective. No matter what your well-intentioned reasons were, we have supported, and actually have a reputation in many areas for supporting, brutal dictators or corrupt leaders (on occasion, at the expense of decent leaders) yet we espouse democracy, so how might this come across to the locals? Could this be a reason why soem of them hate us or don't believe us? ...why they think our government chronically lies to the world? ...why they are suspicious of our spoken motives? ...why we are referred to in some cultures as the Great Satan?
You have two choices...dismiss the logic of those people ("they hate us becuase of our freedoms") or consider, right or wrong, the real reasons that might cause millions of otherwise logical people around the world to hate us so passionately.
And yes, while some of our actions are well-intentioned, I wouldn't be so quick to think for a minute that all of them are. See there's this thing about politicians, greed, and human nature that's universal...it's certainly not exclusively an American problem, but America isn't exempt from it either. But even if you assume that our smellier actions are well-intentioned, there's the question of whether the ends justify the means. Problem is, we never get there because the more questionable "means" are hardly ever even acknowledged and when they are, the person that points them out is, at best, accused of being excessively critical of their own country.
If the opinions on these types of issues were excessively and unjustifiably on the negative side of the spectrum and equally as far away from reality...I could and would provide points to counter the negatives and get it back closer to reality. But in my experience, has never, ever been the problem in the typical public forum in America.
TwistedCopper said:
We knowingly and willingly funded him (the now-Secretary of Defense was intimately involved in the transactions at the time). We knew he was abusing his power (that was kind of, uhhh, noticeable). So where does that leave us?
mingez
New member
RE: Thinking of Trading my YJ on this GT
/3
I win. :lol:
There are no Pinko flakes being eaten here. But have you all had your fill of Facist Fruity Pebbles today?
I'll wear my Hammer and Sickle across my chest if you all promise to sport your Swastikas! Deal? Kidding of course.
As for the discussion:
Critical? Everyone who's posted on this thread is critical of the govenment, and that's a good thing. It's seems the only time anyone is accused of being "Anti-American" is when one's agenda isn't supported. It's un-American not to question leadership.
I think the accusation towards Special K and his opposing view is unfounded. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. (Even you guys I suppose. :lol
Altruistic? Good intentioned? Peaceful?
They will never believe that of us.... nor we of them. The sad truth is...we're both right.
Junkpile said:
/3
I win. :lol:
There are no Pinko flakes being eaten here. But have you all had your fill of Facist Fruity Pebbles today?
I'll wear my Hammer and Sickle across my chest if you all promise to sport your Swastikas! Deal? Kidding of course.
As for the discussion:
Critical? Everyone who's posted on this thread is critical of the govenment, and that's a good thing. It's seems the only time anyone is accused of being "Anti-American" is when one's agenda isn't supported. It's un-American not to question leadership.
I think the accusation towards Special K and his opposing view is unfounded. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. (Even you guys I suppose. :lol
As if WE are a docile little community trying to life live in peace and keep to ourselves? Please, we couldn't mind our own business even if the current climate of the world weren't the way it is.
Altruistic? Good intentioned? Peaceful?
They will never believe that of us.... nor we of them. The sad truth is...we're both right.
TwistedCU
New member
I do acknowledge it, I just don't agree with you on the cause. You make it sound as though we run all over the world pillaging and plundering other countries without just cause and without regard for other countries.Special_K said:
That is simply not true.
Sure, we get around. Sure, we have to flex our muscle and do it often. The real question is why. I answered that in my last post. These countries that have been warring forever resent:
1. That we are the premier superpower in the world.
2. That we have used that power to restore stability over there.
3. That we can, and likely will, do it again.
4. That we are not a Muslim nation. We are the evil infidels in the eyes of many.
5. That we show any support at all for Isreal, which is all it really takes for any of them to hate us.
This post will continue, and your other questions answered, but I'd be late for work. I'll gladly answer the rest late this evening.
Mingez, is "wake up" really that offensive? :?
Sparky-Watts
Banned
TwistedCopper said:
Depends on what time of the day it is....... :lol:
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