Stupid Consumers!

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TwistedCopper said:
Not made here. partially assembled maybe, but not made.
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agreed, but c'mon, you cant argue that if we had only 3 car company’s that cars would be as good as they are today. Bottom line, Competition makes progress.

Also these cars are sold by American dealers (the buildings were built by Americans) the cars are serviced my American shops if you got into an accident you use American insurance that gets its body work done at an American body shop. Most importantly they use the good ole amreican GAS.
 

jakbob said:
well thats not the story where i am in md, i pulled 8 vehicles out of the snow on my road alone with a stock xj, and you fail to mention wether or not the jeep had 4wd, b/c 2wd in the snow with a light rearend is horrible, and sense the maxima has front wheel, it had better traction, just because you say a jeep got stuck and the maxima was taken, it doesnt help your argument cause there are too many unknowns.
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they have a wrnagler.. i dont know why it was stuck but the fwd cars are not that bad in snow that is if you drive like a normal person.
 
bluejeep said:
Also these cars are sold by American dealers (the buildings were built by Americans) the cars are serviced my American shops if you got into an accident you use American insurance that gets its body work done at an American body shop. Most importantly they use the good ole amreican GAS.
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You get all that with an American car, too. Nothing gained there.

My issue is where the purchase price goes.
 
uhh its too late im done, im goin on my nissan forum!

Don’t take it personal copper, I think you a great guy you helped me out with questions a bout my jeep and such. But I still think that competition is what makes today’s cars so good.
I work hard for my money and I will spend it on what products would seem to suite me best. That may seem selfish but that just what I think fair to me.
 

Guys, this is getting way too personal, and there is no need.

bluejeep was just stating an opinion. And I think the responses got WAY too personal WAY too fast.

bluejeep is entitled to his opinion.

"Jap-Crap" ??? The term "Jap" flows freely way too much around here. Ease up there big guy.

90- "Mr. Chang" is a Chinese name. We are talking about Japanese cars. :purple: If we are going to use racially stereotypical names in such a way, do it right. It's Ishihara, or Fujimoto. Now THAT would have been funny! LOL

Buying American, if the product is indeed inferior, is simply encouraging the US auto industry to continue putting out bad product...assuming the product IS inferior (which is debatable) So buying product for the sake of it being American hinders progress in the long run. It says: "go ahead, keep sucking"

Personally, I like autos from Germany, Japan and the US. I buy the car which suits my personal needs, performs, and is of quality...reguardless. If a German auto manufacturer had a superior 4x4 to the Jeep, I'd buy that if all other criteria is the same.

Build a better mousetrap if you want my money....period. Sometimes the US does, sometimes it doesn't.

Patriotism isn't (IMO) an issue. I bought my jeep because I thought it was the best 4x4 for the money, and suited my needs and lifestyle the most. My #2 vehicle would probably be a Tacoma.

The absolute BEST vehicle I've ever owned, an 88 Toyota 4x4 P/U. That thing took an absolute BEATING. And the customer service at the dealership was incredible. 2, would have to be my 1973 Bronco, but not because of the quality or longevity. Mostly because it was cool as all get out.

As for workmanship, Dodge interiors are the absolute worst. EVERYTHING falls apart. Vents, door handles, center console... .

Now, as for aesthetics:
I'm sorry, but ALL US Pick up trucks are FUGLY. GM, Ford, Chevy, Dodge all need to pull their heads out, and get some design sense. (although the Ridgeline is just as foul looking) They are all the auto equivalent of the girl you hookup with because your friend is dating the "Hot Friend". you're sort of jumping on the grenade for a pal to help him out.

Have you guys seen the Aztek? Holy crap. This is the kind of horrible innovation I'm speaking of.
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I don't care if that's the ONLY auto the US puts out. I ain't buying it! And I'd still be a patriot if I didn't.


It's all a matter of opinion. But please, let's keep it above the belt.
 
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Ahhh, Mingez!! Once again the voice of reason.

If you're wondering why the country is in the economic state it's in, and why very few products are actually made here anymore, all you have to do is look to Washington, D.C. Our "leadership" is slowly giving it all away (i.e. NAFTA).
 

TwistedCopper said:
Well times have been too good for a long time and the citizenry is getting too comfortable. Taking what we have for granted. Taking a good long hard look around it is easy to see we are on a downward spiral. I sincerely hope it does not take another depression or war to snap us out of it, but if history repeats itself it probably will. If that is the case I would bet that then you will see my side of this discussion as the sensible one. Too bad that's what it would take because right now all you can think about is you.
:(
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That paragraph sounds as if you're talking about the overpaid union workers who slap the American crap together in Detroit. Times have been too good for a long time and the workers are getting too comfortable with their $40 an hour jobs. Taking what they have for granted. Yeah, it's easy to see we're in a downward spiral and it will take another depression to snap the Big Three out of it.

When I buy a car, yeah, I think of myself. After all, do you think those lazy slobs in Detroit are thinking about you while they're slapping that crap together?

Mingez summed it up nicely, and I've said it before: When America starts building a quality product, I'll buy American. Until then, me and Mr. Yokohama will get along just fine.
 
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I'm with TC on the "Toyotas and Hondas are made and sold here by Americans"

The engines of the Toyota trucks are made in Japan and shipped here.
That comes right off of the sticker.

All of that aside...... Anyone feel free to answer this...


Where do the corporate profits from Toyota, Honda, and Nissan go?

Answer: Back to the country of origin.

But as some have stated here, just keep doing what is right for you, screw the American worker and American auto companies like GM and Ford. After all what have they done for you right? They have not helped you out in anyway. If your answer is "right on dude" then you don't know your history.

I now quote Pat Buchanan's article "Who Killed GM?"

"Willys built the jeeps that carried Ike’s armies across Europe. Ford built the Sherman tanks. Packard made the engines for JFK’s PT boat and for the P-40s of Claire Chennault’s Flying Tigers. Studebaker built the Weasel armored personnel carrier. Chevrolet built the engines for the Flying Boxcar, Buick for the B-24 Liberator, Oldsmobile for the B-25 Mitchell Colonel “Jimmy” Doolittle flew in his “Thirty-Seconds-Over-Tokyo” raid in 1942.

Nash-Kelvinator built the Navy Corsair and Hudson the Helldiver that succeeded the Dauntless torpedo bomber that sank four Japanese carriers at Midway. But no company matched the contributions to victory of General Motors, the greatest company of them all. ".....

" To the economic patriots of the Old Republic, trade policy was designed to benefit the American worker first. They wanted American families to have the highest standard of living on earth and U.S. industry to be superior to that of any and all nations. If this meant favoring American manufacturers with privileged access to U.S. markets and keeping foreign goods out with high tariffs, so be it.

But that Hamiltonian America First vision that guided us for 150 years no longer informs our politics. Economic patriotism is dead. ..."

" That tens of thousands of foreign workers are brought in each year by U.S. employers to take high-tech jobs, that U.S. factories are shut down daily here while opening in China, that professional work is being outsourced to India, that we borrow $2 billion a day to finance consumption of foreign goods—none of this matters. The nation does not matter. The country does not matter. For we are all now in a Global Economy.

And so, as the jobs and skills of U.S. manufacturing workers disappear and the taxes they pay into Social Security, Medicare, and federal and state governments fall, and the cost of their pensions is passed on to taxpayers, and the government goes deeper into debt to cover rising social costs corporations used to carry, other countries quietly observe. "...

" Our elites tell us that we have simply not read Thomas Friedman, we do not understand that the old Hobbesian world is history, that we have entered a new era of interdependence where democracy and free markets will flourish and usher us all into a golden age—and we Americans will lead the way.

If they are right, we are Cassandras. If they are wrong, they are fools who sold out the greatest country in all history for a mess of pottage. "

Like I have said before, when all of the American icons are long gone, and you in your Nissan Stanza, and we have to go to full scale war to protect our nation, who will build the tanks and airplanes to do it? Will you go negotiate with China to have them do it?

Nobody seems to step back and look at the bigger picture.
Economic Patriotism is dead.
America is dying.
 
90Xjay said:
Economic Patriotism is dead.
America is dying.
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Economic Patriotism? That's a laugh!! Economic Patriotism was killed when America entered the global economy. Who was it that pushed America to enter the global economy? Hmmm.....oh, yeah, all of those big American companies that are complaining about Economic Patriotism being dead. Why? Hmmm....oh, yeah, so they could line their pockets with not only the money of the hard working Americans who were overpaying for inferior products, but also with the money of 3rd world countries who couldn't afford to fend them off.....

If you think America is dying, you are part of the cause. How many times must it be said that by ignorantly and blindly buying "only American", you are lining the pockets of a bunch of CEO's that don't give a rat's ass about you or your patriotism, and allowing them to continue to crank out vastly inferior products.

Competition breeds quality. Don't believe me? Take a look at the cars that came out in the mid to late 70's and through the 80's from America. Then look how the quality has slowly crept back up again after Japan took over our consumers' business. They still aren't building the quality of vehicle they are capable of, just enough to keep in business while living high on the hog that is your paycheck. And so long as you continue to blindly hand it over to them, the cycle will continue, and those of us who appreciate quality and workmanship will continue to buy the best products, be they foreign or domestic.
 

Show me a blue-collar auto worker who makes $40 an hour... and what on earth makes you think me being an advocate for American products is all about me? I'm a lineman not an autoworker.

90 - That was a great article by Pat B. I read him often and he is a great patriot.

Mingez and BlueJeep - If my "nailed that one" seemed personal, it was. You're right - it was uncalled for and I apologize.

Mud4Feet - You got it!!! NAFTA was a dagger through the heart of the American worker, co-signed by our Republican and Democratic elected officials. They were all on board to sell us out. Baaastids!

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Do you all see the real tragedy of this?

What is happening is the deterioration of the middle class. It is getting more and more difficult to live at that level. As all the skilled labor jobs are eliminated, outsourced, or squeezed out by foriegn products there will be only two classes - upper and lower. The elite and the poverty stricken.

Government is getting bigger, social classes are changing, our industry is being crippled. Yeah - we're in trouble.
 
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TwistedCopper said:
.................NAFTA was a dagger through the heart of the American worker, co-signed by our Republican and Democratic elected officials. They were all on board to sell us out. Baaastids!..........
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And if I remember right, that big-eared, pointer and chart usin', billionaire Ross Perot warned us about that. Man, I loved that guy!!
 
mingez thank you!
This a kind of funny but true story. Went it to Chevy to service my girlfriend’s equinox. what was wrong? the paint chipping away on the radio buttons and paint chipping away on the interior panels. So they sad they will replace the whole radio and all the panels. bring in the car at 12. Call them back at 3 they said the car is ready in 15 min. we get there the car was not ready for half an hour longer. (original estimated time was 1h half for the whole job). OK finally car comes out. we get in look at the panels and they are new look at the radio and.... same old radio... we take it back. they said they missed the radio, whata crap???. and it will take another 30 min to replace. Since we sat there for 40 min we went out side to just look at other cars. My friend is a manager at a Honda dealer and i just walked over with my girl to say HI. while i was talking about this tread, my girl was looking at the accord and she liked it a lot. So i asked my friend of we can drive one. he handed me the keys we took it for a 30 min test drive. Ill save you the details, She is trading in the 05 equinox or an 06 accord coupe.

So what the moral of the story is don’t flame, dont hate until you sat in it and tried it out. I have driven many many cars American, German, Asian. I even drove a Lamborghini and a Ferrari and a few porches. And i love my wrangler and my 350Z. perfect combo for me.
Im out… peace
 

90Xjay said:
I'm with TC on the "Toyotas and Hondas are made and sold here by Americans"

The engines of the Toyota trucks are made in Japan and shipped here.
That comes right off of the sticker.

All of that aside...... Anyone feel free to answer this...


Where do the corporate profits from Toyota, Honda, and Nissan go?

Answer: Back to the country of origin.

.
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Answer me this. Where does the profit from the American car company goes too? The CEO’s. For instance GM ceo: G Richard Wagoner Jr Total Compensation: $8.5 mil5 a year. Not bad huh.
Those profits go back to may go to Japan but not before they pay all the workers here in us. and that number of us workers that work for foreign companies is a hel a lot larger the big 3.
 
Pat B. is a master at twisting facts to support his agenda....much like some of the people on this board. He's the Republican version of Michael Moore, only not as entertaining.
 
bluejeep said:
Answer me this. Where does the profit from the American car company goes too? The CEO’s. For instance GM ceo: G Richard Wagoner Jr Total Compensation: $8.5 mil5 a year. Not bad huh.
Those profits go back to may go to Japan but not before they pay all the workers here in us. and that number of us workers that work for foreign companies is a hel a lot larger the big 3.
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Do you actually proof read the stuff you post?
Are you implying that the CEO's of GM take the huge profits and don't pay the workers?

I think your trying a little hard here:redface:
 

I did not say they dont pay them, they do but so do the asion car makers.

So what is the difference the ceo in Japan get a cool 8.5mil or a Ceo in u.s. gets the 8.5?
 
bluejeep said:
I did not say they dont pay them, they do but so do the asion car makers.

So what is the difference the ceo in Japan get a cool 8.5mil or a Ceo in u.s. gets the 8.5?
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The difference is the american workers are being paid, and American CEO's are being paid.

Both pay taxes which pay for our roads, our schools, our military, etc. Both are US Consumers which again support our economy.

In other words, the money stays here. and is not sent to Japan where it does all those things there. This is what I mean by it being patriotic and there is no denying that.
 
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