What President Bush's reply to Cindy Sheehan should say.
- Thread starter southtj
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LadyJeepFreak
New member
lol I have to laugh at you all. I swear you can pick apart a topic like no one I've ever seen AND I'm not even going to weigh in on this one. I haven't the energy. Carry On!
Sparky-Watts
Banned
TwistedCopper said:
Oh...my mistake. Carry on.
mingez
New member
Google Earth Locations
Gay marriage can't even be compared to interspecies relations.
And polygamy is a lifestyle CHOICE. And quite frankly, I don't have anything against it...personally.
You are debating the logistics of appeasing "Special interest groups" as a sort of problem in terms of it being an unnecessary cost. And I understand that. But that's not the crux of the debate, It's the fact that there is a passionate disdain from the right toward gays. Not you personally, not from anyone on this board necessarily. But the anti-gay movement doesn't care about unnecessary costs and paperwork. They mostly dislike them as a group of people.
This is why I said a few posts ago, there's NO winning this debate. You either believe it's a "Choice" or not. You either believe being gay is "Wrong" or not. And that's where it must end.
I don't think those are appropriate comparisons. A child isn't a consenting adult and it's illegal to have sex with a child.TwistedCopper said:
Gay marriage can't even be compared to interspecies relations.
And polygamy is a lifestyle CHOICE. And quite frankly, I don't have anything against it...personally.
C'mon...do you really think that it's about the catering??
You are debating the logistics of appeasing "Special interest groups" as a sort of problem in terms of it being an unnecessary cost. And I understand that. But that's not the crux of the debate, It's the fact that there is a passionate disdain from the right toward gays. Not you personally, not from anyone on this board necessarily. But the anti-gay movement doesn't care about unnecessary costs and paperwork. They mostly dislike them as a group of people.
Yeah, this is simply the latest tile to drop from the domino effect that's been ongoing since we gave those pesky slaves their freedom and let women vote. Minorities are also considered a "special interest group." Similarly, I'm sure someone back then said: "What's next? Equal rights for Indians? Equal rights for women?" As long as the cause is considered important enough, we make compromises toward special interest groups to accomodate the evolving citizenry. And that's how it should be.TwistedCopper said:
This is why I said a few posts ago, there's NO winning this debate. You either believe it's a "Choice" or not. You either believe being gay is "Wrong" or not. And that's where it must end.
TwistedCU
New member
RE: Acetone???
No one is "born gay". It is a ridiculous claim. My comparisons used above are very appropriate. So many people are blaming their bad choices on being "born that way" in order to shrug off any guilt or blame. Some alcoholics have made the same claims... it is not true. Some say it's hereditary, some say it's luck-of-the-draw. It's BS. It's a cop-out. It is the easiest thing in the world to believe that all the poor choices you made are not your fault, so when a few quack, agenda-driven MD's make the claim people sigh with relief that they can wash their hands of their mistakes. The human mind is an incredible thing, and it is amazing what lies you are capable of telling yourself when in denial. This denial can and does happen to perfectly sane, intelligent people.
Many people who lived their lives practicing homosexual acts have turned from that life, many of them now happily married or in heterosexual relationships. Many alcoholics/drug addicts turn from daily substance abuse and live their lives in sobriety, and many of them without ever having stepped foot inside a recovery meeting (Don't get me wrong, I have seen 12 step programs work wonders) and are completely freed from their addiction. Why have these people been able to experience a joyful life living without these deviancies if they were supposedly born with them and will die with them? Because they now know the truth: that they were not born that way, and that making right that which was once wrong is not only possible, but it is being done everyday. People can change.
For the record, I do not believe that the majority of gays are rebels against their parents. Sure some (maybe many) are, but the truth is most are simply victims of our society. A society that from grade school teaches them that homosexuality is a viable option that they should explore. Yes guidance counselors are telling this to our children. TV is showing it as an everyday normality with Ellen, Will and Grace, etc. MTV glamorizes it. There is a very strong, wealthy force out there pushing this agenda and it has been very effective. It's a lie.
So, what makes people behave in this manner which bucks society's "norm"? Many many things. Some may be related to bad experiences in the past such as abuse or rape, some may be a rebellious thing or other family related issue, some may have to do with mental instability, and some may just be people falling into a well laid out lie. I'm sure the reasons are countless.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear. I would not and do not hate anyone for being gay. I do, however, veiw them as sick and in need of help. If some people are living that way and wish not to be then I want them to know that it is not a unreverseable curse from childbirth. To me these folks are living with a disorder just as an alcoholic, a manic depressive, or someone with buleimia (sp?). All of these people are "stuck" in their situations with a hopeless feeling of not being able to help themselves. As we all know these maladies can kill, but they can also be beaten. As can homosexuality.
This is not a minority issue, or sufferage. It is a battle of morality, sickness, and lies. Sad part is the whole "born with it" theory is a mind tweeze that keeps them sick and without hope.
No one is "born gay". It is a ridiculous claim. My comparisons used above are very appropriate. So many people are blaming their bad choices on being "born that way" in order to shrug off any guilt or blame. Some alcoholics have made the same claims... it is not true. Some say it's hereditary, some say it's luck-of-the-draw. It's BS. It's a cop-out. It is the easiest thing in the world to believe that all the poor choices you made are not your fault, so when a few quack, agenda-driven MD's make the claim people sigh with relief that they can wash their hands of their mistakes. The human mind is an incredible thing, and it is amazing what lies you are capable of telling yourself when in denial. This denial can and does happen to perfectly sane, intelligent people.
Many people who lived their lives practicing homosexual acts have turned from that life, many of them now happily married or in heterosexual relationships. Many alcoholics/drug addicts turn from daily substance abuse and live their lives in sobriety, and many of them without ever having stepped foot inside a recovery meeting (Don't get me wrong, I have seen 12 step programs work wonders) and are completely freed from their addiction. Why have these people been able to experience a joyful life living without these deviancies if they were supposedly born with them and will die with them? Because they now know the truth: that they were not born that way, and that making right that which was once wrong is not only possible, but it is being done everyday. People can change.
For the record, I do not believe that the majority of gays are rebels against their parents. Sure some (maybe many) are, but the truth is most are simply victims of our society. A society that from grade school teaches them that homosexuality is a viable option that they should explore. Yes guidance counselors are telling this to our children. TV is showing it as an everyday normality with Ellen, Will and Grace, etc. MTV glamorizes it. There is a very strong, wealthy force out there pushing this agenda and it has been very effective. It's a lie.
So, what makes people behave in this manner which bucks society's "norm"? Many many things. Some may be related to bad experiences in the past such as abuse or rape, some may be a rebellious thing or other family related issue, some may have to do with mental instability, and some may just be people falling into a well laid out lie. I'm sure the reasons are countless.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear. I would not and do not hate anyone for being gay. I do, however, veiw them as sick and in need of help. If some people are living that way and wish not to be then I want them to know that it is not a unreverseable curse from childbirth. To me these folks are living with a disorder just as an alcoholic, a manic depressive, or someone with buleimia (sp?). All of these people are "stuck" in their situations with a hopeless feeling of not being able to help themselves. As we all know these maladies can kill, but they can also be beaten. As can homosexuality.
This is not a minority issue, or sufferage. It is a battle of morality, sickness, and lies. Sad part is the whole "born with it" theory is a mind tweeze that keeps them sick and without hope.
Sparky-Watts
Banned
TwistedCopper said:
Good Lord....you're worse than I thought. I thought this type of close-minded thinking died with my grandfather. I'm with Mingez on this one.....stepping out, because there's apparently no hope here. :roll:
JeepMonkey
New member
wheelin
I agree with you 100% T.C. 50 years ago it was unheard of to show certain parts of the body on t.v. Now it's so commonplace that nothing seems wrong about it. While it may not be wrong or right I believe it definetly plays a part in making society think that it's "o.k." There are so many instances of lines between right and wrong being washed away now that I believe our society as a whole is about ready to explode into reckless abandonment. The moralistic fiber of the human race is being ripped apart and we may never recover from it. If we consider certain acts of sexuality alright now because a person was "born with it" then who's to say that 20 years from now there won't be a t.v. show gloryfiing the life of a pedophile? Obviously these people must have been born with this "affliction" so there can't be anything wrong with a 30 year old man who wants to make it with an 8 year old boy. After all.....he was born with it. It's not his fault.
I agree with you 100% T.C. 50 years ago it was unheard of to show certain parts of the body on t.v. Now it's so commonplace that nothing seems wrong about it. While it may not be wrong or right I believe it definetly plays a part in making society think that it's "o.k." There are so many instances of lines between right and wrong being washed away now that I believe our society as a whole is about ready to explode into reckless abandonment. The moralistic fiber of the human race is being ripped apart and we may never recover from it. If we consider certain acts of sexuality alright now because a person was "born with it" then who's to say that 20 years from now there won't be a t.v. show gloryfiing the life of a pedophile? Obviously these people must have been born with this "affliction" so there can't be anything wrong with a 30 year old man who wants to make it with an 8 year old boy. After all.....he was born with it. It's not his fault.
Sparky-Watts
Banned
RE: HAS ANYONE NOTICED RUBICON REAR BRAKES DO NOT WORK WELL
Why wait 20 years? Just watch a Michael Jackson video.
And see, all this time we thought people were born black or white! Michael proved us all wrong. He apparently has "chosen" to be white now! Gee, it makes perfect sense now. It just amazes me that 10 million men and women "chose" to be gay just to piss off their parents! They "chose" to be gay so they could be ridiculed and shunned in society. They "chose" to be gay so that they could be beaten (often to death) by people who don't like their "choice". Man, now that takes guts and determination. :roll:
jumppr said:
Why wait 20 years? Just watch a Michael Jackson video.
And see, all this time we thought people were born black or white! Michael proved us all wrong. He apparently has "chosen" to be white now! Gee, it makes perfect sense now. It just amazes me that 10 million men and women "chose" to be gay just to piss off their parents! They "chose" to be gay so they could be ridiculed and shunned in society. They "chose" to be gay so that they could be beaten (often to death) by people who don't like their "choice". Man, now that takes guts and determination. :roll:
prariepunk
Active member
RE: Re: RE: HAS ANYONE NOTICED RUBICON REAR BRAKES DO NOT WO
T.C. I got your back too. My favorite saying about homosexuality come from Ted Nugent no less
JUST DON'T SPLASH ON ME
Uh..... a white woman no less! :shock:Sparky-Watts said:
T.C. I got your back too. My favorite saying about homosexuality come from Ted Nugent no less
toned down of course :wink: ...... well I don't mind'em..... I even got hit on today by a nice latino fella (not my cup-o-tea)..... but......Ted Nugent said:
JUST DON'T SPLASH ON ME
TwistedCU
New member
People make choices every day. You think that homosexuals are the only people in this world who do things by choice that put them in a position to be ridiculed or persecuted? Do you believe that engaging in that activity is the only thing that goes against the grain of our society? Certainly not.
mingez
New member
RE: Google Earth Locations
Not a cop out, I just recognize futility when I see it. It's a happy ending, just go with it. At this point it's going to degenerate to a "My beliefs are more moral and substantial than your beliefs" match. Because "societies moral fiber is being compromised," cliche cliche, witty rapporte yada yada. We've been down that road, and it's endless and has no destination to speak of.
I enjoyed the debate, and as usual you all make some interesting points. Good night everybody.
Not a cop out, I just recognize futility when I see it. It's a happy ending, just go with it. At this point it's going to degenerate to a "My beliefs are more moral and substantial than your beliefs" match. Because "societies moral fiber is being compromised," cliche cliche, witty rapporte yada yada. We've been down that road, and it's endless and has no destination to speak of.
I enjoyed the debate, and as usual you all make some interesting points. Good night everybody.
TwistedCU
New member
I have not once made my morals the basis for my discussion in this whole thread. Sure I'll make no bones about my beliefs (pertaining to Christianity), and made two small references to them, but I did not make them my arguing point on this subject, I made it a point not to do so from the get-go.
I know better than to argue for morals with someone who's differ from mine. Like you said... it is futile and we've been down that road anyhow.
I figured it would be too easy for someone to say "We disagree on our morals therefore this discussion is futile... yada yada" instead of offerring a rebuttal to my arguement.
I know better than to argue for morals with someone who's differ from mine. Like you said... it is futile and we've been down that road anyhow.
I figured it would be too easy for someone to say "We disagree on our morals therefore this discussion is futile... yada yada" instead of offerring a rebuttal to my arguement.
You can't hate gays. I am personally disgusted by the whole idea, but my own personal conclusions about what makes a person gay also keeps me from having any hard feelings towards them for simply being homosexual. It's a mental problem, and it's hard to hate a person for a problem they can't control. I wouldn't hate someone who was clinically depressed because they can't be happy like me, it's just not a fair way to look at them.
The whole "gay agenda" that we as a society are having pushed down our throats is a different story though.
The whole "gay agenda" that we as a society are having pushed down our throats is a different story though.
