Big Box Mart


Very true. It's a very simplistic message about the problem. More and more companies are outsourcing their production to cut costs. They lay off employees who then can't get high paying jobs and they in turn HAVE to shop at places like WalMart because they sell everything so cheap.

I try not to shop there at all but the wife will go sometimes if we can't find it elsewhere. Like last weekend we needed footie pajamas for our daughter and couldn't find any for less than $30 bucks except for at WalMart for about $10. I priced shoes and knives and other things and was just amazed at how cheaply priced things are. But I still refused to buy those things I needed on principle.

I also try to buy American made when possible.
 
Ok I hope this doesn't sound like I am bashing wally world...ok I really am:D
But when it comes to cruel corporate America business practices Wally takes them to low bargain basement places.
If your company wishes to do business with wally your company must sign a LTA ( long term agreement) and be willing to cut 5% per year. But if Wally wants more say like 7-8% you have to agree and sell at that or you have to buy out of the LTA. Wally is allowed to cancel the LTA at any time but guess what...you cant. Wally also gets to tell you what they want to pay for your product if there unhappy of your price.

This is some of the business practices that this company employs to bring you the low prices it guarantees.
 
your right about those LTA's....

I can't believe that some of these CEO's like of Vlasic and Rubbermaid sold their souls just to be in Wally and it has led to the financial ruin of their companies......you can't sell something to Wally at or below your cost to manufacture and then make up for it in volume sales....
 

Welp can't talk bad about Wally here. Wally employs a familly member that I care very much about. They work there only since an other company they worked for went out of business (prolly cuz of Wally).

Anyway, I shop Wally all the time. Cheap is the name of the game to some people. I hate the store itself (too big and crowded) but the prices can't be beat and everything is in one place.

The video is interesting.

Lady
 
No one is forced to do business with WalMart and no one is forced to work there either. People always demonize any company that is hugely succesful. It's a free country, shop elsewhere, work elsewhere, and don't sell them your products if you think they're gonna screw you. No offense but I get sick of hearing "look what they did to me" when people get in bed with a company that is known for being tough on their vendors. Walmart is one of the most efficiently run businesses in the world today and demand the same from their vendors. All the vendors know this so if they still sign up with WM and get killed cause they made promises they couldn't keep I don't feel sorry for them. Walmart is not and never will be a charity organization. They are a business. Businesses exist solely to make money. Walmart is very good at making money. If you don't like their pay, don't work there. If you don't like their business practices, don't sell them your products. If you don't like them cause you think they're a corporate bully don't shop there. I shop there and will continue to do so as will a whole lot of people in this country. I work hard for my money and will spend it where I get the most value for my dollar.
 
wm69 said:
No one is forced to do business with WalMart and no one is forced to work there either. People always demonize any company that is hugely succesful. It's a free country, shop elsewhere, work elsewhere, and don't sell them your products if you think they're gonna screw you.
Click to expand...

I agree, and I don't shop there. It's capitalism pure and simple, and I can't hate the playa, I have to hate the game.

At the same time, I don't see the anti-sentiment as whining, I see it as self-preservation, and people are just trying to change the game. Most folks are uneducated about the situation with such large Retail entities, and can't see that in the long run such economics and business plans are bad for your town or region.

I say:
Don't like Walmart? Don't shop there.
-but-
If you REALLY don't like Walmart, try and educate others as to why they shouldn't shop there. Bad press and PR are part of business, and a tool for competitors to thrive on if an opportunity presents itself.

If you do shop there, well, don't cry when your salary, bene's and retirement packages are cut due to competitive pressures. And don't whine when your job get's outsourced to foriegn competitors. Although, with the successes of foriegn product, labor can't stay cheap forever.

I did buy a shop vac when I had a leak in my apt at 3am. There's no 24 hr extraction service in this city. There's an example where I would shop there.
 

mingez said:
I agree, and I don't shop there. It's capitalism pure and simple, and I can't hate the playa, I have to hate the game.

At the same time, I don't see the anti-sentiment as whining, I see it as self-preservation, and people are just trying to change the game. Most folks are uneducated about the situation with such large Retail entities, and can't see that in the long run such economics and business plans are bad for your town or region.

I say:
Don't like Walmart? Don't shop there.
-but-
If you REALLY don't like Walmart, try and educate others as to why they shouldn't shop there. Bad press and PR are part of business, and a tool for competitors to thrive on if an opportunity presents itself.

If you do shop there, well, don't cry when your salary, bene's and retirement packages are cut due to competitive pressures. And don't whine when your job get's outsourced to foriegn competitors. Although, with the successes of foriegn product, labor can't stay cheap forever.

I did buy a shop vac when I had a leak in my apt at 3am. There's no 24 hr extraction service in this city. There's an example where I would shop there.
Click to expand...



Very Well stated Mingez...you are a word-smith!
You expressed how many people feel who have looked ahead a bit at what is going on here.

And I am not anti-capitalism, just concerned over Wally's version of Capitalism. I hope that with the release of the movie http://www.walmartmovie.com/ in the next few days that people will view it with open minds....
 
mingez said:
I agree, and I don't shop there. It's capitalism pure and simple, and I can't hate the playa, I have to hate the game.

At the same time, I don't see the anti-sentiment as whining, I see it as self-preservation, and people are just trying to change the game. Most folks are uneducated about the situation with such large Retail entities, and can't see that in the long run such economics and business plans are bad for your town or region.

I say:
Don't like Walmart? Don't shop there.
-but-
If you REALLY don't like Walmart, try and educate others as to why they shouldn't shop there. Bad press and PR are part of business, and a tool for competitors to thrive on if an opportunity presents itself.

If you do shop there, well, don't cry when your salary, bene's and retirement packages are cut due to competitive pressures. And don't whine when your job get's outsourced to foriegn competitors. Although, with the successes of foriegn product, labor can't stay cheap forever.

I did buy a shop vac when I had a leak in my apt at 3am. There's no 24 hr extraction service in this city. There's an example where I would shop there.
Click to expand...

So what about Kmart, Target, Home Depot, Lowes, McDonalds, Coke, or any other hugely succesful business? When any business is that successful it will be at the expense of some other business. My local hardware store (which was WAAAY overpriced but did have some items not available at WM) was two blocks away from WM and they coexisted fine until a Lowes moved in. The hardware store closed within 3 months of Lowes opening. Why not attack Lowes?
Contrary to popular belief Walmart's pay once you get out of the checkout line is pretty competitive. I live about 30 min south of their home office and could go work there today making about twice what I'm making now with much better benefits. Why don't I? Because I don't want to work the hours they would require (again, I know what working for them would involve so I simply don't do it). My time with family does not have a price on it. The people who work for Walmart who are not paid well are people who have no skills that would warrent higher pay. Do you suggest we pay a cashier $10-12 hour? You raise everyone's pay you get massive inflation. People who complain about WM's pay are people who want a high wage without doing anything special to justify that wage. I'll repeat no one has to work there. If their pay is so much lower than other available jobs then no one would ever work there.
Did anyone ever notice that you don't see Titleist golf clubs at WM? You don't see Browning shotguns for sale either, or Polo clothes, or Nikes. When you have a good product you don't have to discount it to sell it. These companies don't sell their products to Walmart because they know the game WM plays.
Your self perservation is the small mom and pop store who make a living by marking their items up 300% at the expense of their customer. As for cheap foreign labor, we are going towards a global economy, and nothing is going to stop that. With that global economy the fact that Americans over overpaid (compared to the rest of the world) becomes very obvious. A perfect example of this is the UAW workers for GM who make $50/hour to stand there and push a button all day. That high-paying low-skill job is bankrupting GM (well that and the fact that their cars are junk). People can blame it on whoever they want to but wages, benefits etc are going to decline in this country sooner or later and shopping at Walmart isn't going to amount to a hill of beans one way or the other. That's "looking ahead a bit" at reality.
As for WM taking away my wages and benefits due to competition, if that happens then I'll find another job. We do not have the inherent right to keep our same job/pay/benefits with no risk of every losing them. That's part of living in a free market. Better learn to be flexible when it comes to what you do for a living.
 
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Well what he said aligns better with what I believe than what anyone else said so I agree with what wm said as well.

I'm a big believer in you have to be smart and hardworking to get any decent wage anymore and keep it. NOTHING is a given and doesn't have to be. If I didn't have it though and I wanted or needed it, I would go find it through perserverence and determination. It's not just retail that is suffering in this market. P.S. I work in manufacturing where there is no gaurantee of tomorrow.

Lady
 
Well, make no mistake WM. I don't really disagree with you. I don't think Walmart is doing anything "Wrong." The rules have been made, and they are winning and playing within the rules. Just the same as Lowes, and Target. Kmart...not so much.
But the jib jab vid, and the protests are within the rules as well. And if your business or livelihood is directly threatened by such large retail entities, then what's wrong with fighting the good fight?

Just as you say "Nobody HAS to work or shop there", that phrase is consistent with, "nobody HAS to like or accept Walmart's business pracitices" as well.

I guess, it's best put like this:
-You don't understand why everyone is whining about the fact that everyone protests the Walmart strategy and their business practices.
-I don't understand why anyone is annoyed by those who disagree with their business practices and protest. It's very American to do so.
Both are legal, both are within their rights.

I work for a large retail chain. And if locals hate the way we do business, then that's a cost of doing business, and if we can't handle the PR side of the battle, then we will go away. They win.

Besides, what's wrong with people trying to bring down the Walmart empire? Al'ls fair in love and war or business...right?

I won't shop there, because it doesn't benefit me. If it does you, then great, keep going. I'm not going to say you're a villian for doing so. You've weighed the evidence, and your decision to go is yours. I simply had a different ruling.

But why criticize my conscience decision NOT to shop there? How does that hurt you? Why protest with economists who criticize their business practices. Why is it so annoying to see the Jib Jab video?
--Walmart's a big boy, he can take care of himself. He wouldn't be there for you, except to offer you Vlasic pickes at 2 cents less than the cost of production.
(just remember, that 2 cents comes from somewhere, whether it's a worker's pay, or a tax loss write off. And we all pay taxes)

You make good points, i'm really not that passionate about this subject to be perfectly honest, but I still will NOT shopping at Wally World.
 
mingez said:
Well, make no mistake WM. I don't really disagree with you. I don't think Walmart is doing anything "Wrong." The rules have been made, and they are winning and playing within the rules. Just the same as Lowes, and Target. Kmart...not so much.
But the jib jab vid, and the protests are within the rules as well. And if your business or livelihood is directly threatened by such large retail entities, then what's wrong with fighting the good fight?

Just as you say "Nobody HAS to work or shop there", that phrase is consistent with, "nobody HAS to like or accept Walmart's business pracitices" as well.

I guess, it's best put like this:
-You don't understand why everyone is whining about the fact that everyone protests the Walmart strategy and their business practices.
-I don't understand why anyone is annoyed by those who disagree with their business practices and protest. It's very American to do so.
Both are legal, both are within their rights.

I work for a large retail chain. And if locals hate the way we do business, then that's a cost of doing business, and if we can't handle the PR side of the battle, then we will go away. They win.

Besides, what's wrong with people trying to bring down the Walmart empire? Al'ls fair in love and war or business...right?

I won't shop there, because it doesn't benefit me. If it does you, then great, keep going. I'm not going to say you're a villian for doing so. You've weighed the evidence, and your decision to go is yours. I simply had a different ruling.

But why criticize my conscience decision NOT to shop there? How does that hurt you? Why protest with economists who criticize their business practices. Why is it so annoying to see the Jib Jab video?
--Walmart's a big boy, he can take care of himself. He wouldn't be there for you, except to offer you Vlasic pickes at 2 cents less than the cost of production.
(just remember, that 2 cents comes from somewhere, whether it's a worker's pay, or a tax loss write off. And we all pay taxes)

You make good points, i'm really not that passionate about this subject to be perfectly honest, but I still will NOT shopping at Wally World.
Click to expand...

I'm not criticizing your decision NOT to shop there, in fact, I suggested that to people who do not like WM's business tactics. If you suggest that Walmart is "The great satan" to me, however, I will point out that they are not. They're another company in business of making money. Nothing more.
 

WM,

You said that us Americans are overpaid and you used the GM Union worker as example.. I'll give you that one for sure. Many unions only exist now to serve themselves not the workers..and they have really hurt the auto manufactures who are fighting unions and the Aisan owned auto manufacturers. (Buy a Honda built here, and alot of the profits go back to Japan.)


When unions were formed to help the immigrant workers in the coal mines who were not even paid with real money they were a good thing. That time has passed and they(unions) need to change tactics.
That said, if Americans are overpaid compared to other workers in the world, we are also VERY over taxed, my friend is just one tax braket ahead of me and he loses 33% of his pay to taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That stinks... do you think that the workers in Mexico making 60 cents per hour are paying that tax rate?????? NO!

We also have living standards that the rest of the world does not have, clean safe water to drink and decent health care if you can afford it.

HOWEVER, COMMA My beef with Wally is not with the wages that they pay, if your goal in life is to stand there and check people for minimum wage, get after it. If you want to move to management, get after it.

My beef is when Wally brags about saving a small town's economy by giving business to a textile mill to sell them sweaters and then a year later, cancelling the orders because some other supplier had them for 5 cents ceaper overseas.. and still continue to run the ads like your some great American company.

Importing cheap crap from communist countries who use the profits to buy Jeep Cherokees and run them into frozen ponds and laugh about it, or improve the missle guidence to better target our cities with stinks to high heaven. I don't want to change your mind, I just want to have open dialogue about a topic and we have had some good points made here on both sides....

tally ho!
 
You do make a good point. You will not find any cheap chinese tools in my toolbox, you will not find any cheap chinese pots/pans/utensils in my kitchen. I am a firm believer in "you get what you pay for" in MOST cases. BUT WM is hardly the only company that is carrying a large amount of merchandise that is made overseas with cheap foreign labor. They are a nice big target but are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
That being said we do at least one big shopping trip to WM each month as for groceries. I don't like going to WM not because I have a problem with the store, but because I don't like fighting through the masses of smelly humanity that completely clog the aisles and check their manners (if they had any to start with) at the door. For this reason we tried going to the local grocery for food and after several times of "we'll try it again and see if they're any better" we determined that we spend about 20% (yes really) more if we go to the local grocery and their fresh stuff isn't as good as what WM offers. For that reason we do our big trip to WM about once a month and then hit the local grocery for those little milk and bread trips.

I'm not an everyday WM shopper; to be honest I go there as little as I can for the above mentioned reason, but the "WM is the great satan" mantra is right up there with "oil companies are the great satan" in my book. They are both businesses and are in business to make as much money as the market will permit.

People in this country are going to have to learn to adapt better, because the rest of the world is catching on and catching up. They have a long way to go but they want a piece of the American pie and WM or no WM they're gonna start taking our pie. And your textile mill example, EVERYONE is doing that now. That's adapting to be part of the global economy. Get used to it. Americans are going to have to be willing to work harder and smarter to keep the same standard of living that came easy a few years ago. Sucks but that's the way it is. It's not WM's fault, it's just the way it is.

You might also check out Sanyo. Before WM they were a little known company that wasn't really going anywhere. With WM they have grown tremendously and done well during that growth. One of my fathers friends was the GM of the sanyo plant in Forrest City AR until about 5 years ago (when he was transferred back to Japan). He said WM people were very shrewd when it came to negotiating, but that if Sanyo ran their plant right both Sanyo and WM would do well but that WM's offers left very little room for error (in other words to make money when dealing with WM you have to be as productive and efficient as WM). Sears and other dept stores' reps would take the "give me 30 free TV's for myself and my buddies and we'll pay you you're asking price for your product" approach and you see how those stores are doing vs WM. No haggleing, no "can you do better". These people didn't care as long as they got their free stuff.

Edited to link this, which pretty much says what everyone on either side of the discussion here have said. Saved people money, but since WM doesn't pay well they didn't have as much to spend. My problem with the "lower wages" argument is the "FIND ANOTHER JOB" argument. As I said earlier, I could make quite a bit more at WM (I'm in accounting) than I do at my current job but I know what hours they would require for that extra money so I've never switched jobs.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/Business/Wal_Mart/
 
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" A perfect example of this is the UAW workers for GM who make $50/hour to stand there and push a button all day. That high-paying low-skill job is bankrupting GM (well that and the fact that their cars are junk)."

I so agree with this, and, as I work at a nursing home, I take it personally. We will pay people all kinds of money to make us somehthing, but take care of our babies or old people- starvation wages. I knew lots of auto workers in Michigan who had college degrees they never used because they could make more money working on the line. I know one guy who is an assembly line worker, stay at home wife, and he managed to send all four of his kids to private colleges at $34,000 a year. Somehow, it just doesn't seem like we are providing the right financial incentive to the right people- and I don't even want to get started about the folks around here who have family farms and have to have a day job to get by.
 

cjkirchman said:
I'm going to have to agree with WM69 on this. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Click to expand...

Ditto.

And as far as "only buy American", I say "rubbish"!! That's the problem with America's economy right now, too many hardliners that will only buy American, regardless of cost or quality. I say when America can make a better product for less money than a foreign country (and yes, they can if they want to), then I'll buy American. That's the incentive the big businesses need here to get people to buy American. They've gotten by way too long by making overpriced, poor quality products, and the lemmings among us in the American society blindly buy them as they hurtle toward the cliff of ignorance. I shop WalMart, and most likely will continue to do so, as long as they can provide what I need at a lower price.

And yes, the majority of the employees at the local WalMart stores make more than I do. My son worked there for a while this year, and started out making more than me just stocking shelves on the night shift.

So, let's quit bashing businesses for strong business practices just because other businesses aren't willing to do what it takes to compete....that's what WalMart, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. have done, they've taken the steps necessary to compete in today's economy, and have done so legally and intelligently.
 
Sparky-Watts said:
I say when America can make a better product for less money than a foreign country,then I'll buy American.
Click to expand...


America itself IS a better product than a foreign country...
 
People are too cheap anymore, no one respects or wants to pay for quality or craftsmanship. They're more happy saving 1-3% and growing their managerie of widgets, and they do it at every store not just wal-mart.

The idea of being able to provide superior quality for less money is an oxymoron. Better products are going to invariably cost more. Especially when they are not produced in a third world country.

My problem with wal-mart isn't necessarily the low wages it's more the destruction of the small town. Half the life'rs at wal-mart are nearly unemployable and I have little pitty for them or their minimum wage. The other half could have possibly done better for themselves if there was anywhere to work but wal-mart.

Everything has to be convenient now. Instead of going to a place that specializes in what you're looking for, everyone goes to a place that half-asses in everything. That way in one trip you can get shirts that will shrink 2 sizes in the first wash, underwear that were tried on and then returned prior to you purchasing them, a childrens bike that weighs 120 pounds, a tent that leaks when it rains, 20K mile tires, bruised apples, electrical tape that doesnt even stick to itself, and 1/4 inch plastic googley eyes.

Also, what is up with wal-mart and the womens mega plus sized neon stretch pants? How can anyone sell those things with a clear concience?

Luckily for us one of the things we still make better than anyone in the world is armaments. Because at this rate we're going to need them to rectify the trade deficit.

Personally I'll choose to get hardware from a hardware store, groceries from a grocer, clothes from a clothier, and armaments from Springfield Armory... Just like George Washington did.
 

wm69 said:
If you suggest that Walmart is "The great satan" to me, however, I will point out that they are not.
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Ummm... I might be pointing out the obvious, but did I not say that Walmart is doing nothing wrong? So, I think the inference there is that I don't think they are "The great Satan" as you put it. I say good for them.

I wrote:
I don't think Walmart is doing anything "Wrong."
Click to expand...

And I'd like to also point out that I don't only buy American. I buy the best quality product reguardless of the origin of the country. Again, I could care less about what WM pays it's employees, it's their choice to work there. I chose not to add to the problem of cannabalising the economy to save a penny or two. They are not satan, but neither are those who criticize WM for their practices.

I'm a capitalist! If you can make your buck..do it. But my capitalist side also says I need to be employed in order to make a buck. When does it all end? Conglomeration, and monopolistic practices are in the long run bad for business...that's econ 101.

And the "other" businesses aren't able to do what they must to compete, because if they don't have the resources or buying power to do so. Open up an electronics store across the street from Best Buy and tell me if there was ANYTHING you could do to compete. It's a practice in futility.

As for the strechy pants Out of Step mentioned, I agree. We should burn Wally World to the ground for that alone.
 
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